The Lessons Not Learned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Consider this: I literally do not care. Those things don't change the fact that this game is in quite the state.

---

And yet you're still (unfortunately) subbed to the game and gracing us with your trolling presence...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Still lying I see. I presented points to your statements. I'm here to discuss not troll. Yet you n select others buckle each time I and many others do this n try to dip off with an insult.

What you deem a "lost cause" is in reality someone who is willing to challenge your views n stick to their guns. Stop with the bs dude...

---

I already mentioned it multiple times, all you do is defend Square at all cost, no matter what point is being "challenged", you always take SE's side and try and find them excuses. That makes it absolutely pointless to even try and discuss with you.

Housing issue ? Duh blame the players they dont NEED to have a house !

Glam issue and character creation screen too limited, being unable to preview emotes and glams from the creation menu ? Well you have youtube to watch it, "why would they put it in the game when you have alternatives" was literally your point.

You just always find something to someone defend them, and as I just said, it makes it pointless to even try and discuss something with you, I already know what you will respond next.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

And yet you're still (unfortunately) subbed to the game and gracing us with your trolling presence...

---

Your trolling presence isnt any better than his.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

I already mentioned it multiple times, all you do is defend Square at all cost, no matter what point is being "challenged", you always take SE's side and try and find them excuses. That makes it absolutely pointless to even try and discuss with you.

Housing issue ? Duh blame the players they dont NEED to have a house !

Glam issue ? Well you have youtube to watch it, why would they put it in the game when you have alternatives ?

You just always find something to someone defend them, and as I just said, it makes it pointless to even try and discuss something with you, I already know what you will respond next.



Your trolling presence isnt any better than his.

---

And we're STILL lying!!! When did I EVER say housing was fine? I said you are responsible for your own choices and your connection to your house. FACTUALLY you aren't being forced to do anything. Nobody NEEDS a house. It is a luxury. Again another FACT.

Glam issue I said could for sure be revised but UNTIL THEN you have some alternatives. Hell someone even pointed out that hair is one of the things you dont have an alternative to check n I even said that was true n agreed. Not ONCE did I say "why would they put it in the game when you have alternatives". More made up bs.

I'm sick n tired of you lying on my name dude. Its pathetic asf. Hell I even said in this very thread the game could use some work. How tf does that translate to me always defending? News flash!!! It's doesnt.

Let's say I WAS always defending the game. You have no issue with OP always crapping on it. So if that extreme is ok then the other should be ok where someone always defends. If one isn't ok nor should the other be.

But yeah I'm just a "lost cause". Right xD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

And we're STILL lying!!! When did I EVER say housing was fine? I said you are responsible for your own choices and your connection to your house. FACTUALLY you aren't being forced to do anything. Nobody NEEDS a house. It is a luxury. Again another FACT.

Glam issue I said could for sure be revised but UNTIL THEN you have some alternatives. Hell someone even pointed out that hair is one of the things you dont have an alternative to check n I even said that was true n agreed. Not ONCE did I say "why would they put it in the game when you have alternatives". More made up bs.

I'm sick n tired of you lying on my name dude. Its pathetic asf. Hell I even said in this very thread the game could use some work. How tf does that translate to me always defending? News flash!!! It's doesnt.

Let's say I WAS always defending the game. You have no issue with OP always crapping on it. So if that extreme is ok then the other should be ok where someone always defends. If one isn't ok nor should the other be.

But yeah I'm just a "lost cause". Right xD

---

You literally just admitted again you are blaming the players for wanting a house, which is exactly what I just mentioned, thank you for proving my point, lol. Also if it's a luxury, dont put it on the product page as a major part of the product when it's this limited, that's called fake advertisement.

E : Yep, I actually seriously give up LOL, I tried to have a decent discussion with you, but you are actually in denial.

"Yeah it's their fault for wanting a house, it's a luxury so it's their choice !"
"No I dont blame them !"

Alright lmao

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

You literally just admitted again you are blaming the players for wanting a house, which is exactly what I just mentioned, thank you for proving my point, lol. Also if it's a luxury, dont put it on the product page as a major product when it's this limited, that's called fake advertisement.

---

Blaming players for wanting a house...where...? Are you not responsible for your own attachment to something now? Many people have unsubbed and lost a home because they themselves don't value them that much. That choice is 100% theirs. All within THEIR control. Where tf did I say "it's your fault for wanting a house? I said you have the choice t keep subbed n keep it, or drop your sub for 45iirc days n lose it. Unless the 45 has changed that means you can drop your sub for a whole month n take a break n be completely fine which still keeps to the mentality of the devs wanting people to take breaks. And again NOT EVERYONE OWNS A HOUSE. Now if that number has changed I'll 100% take that back.

And I'd 100% be down with them making it known housing is limited on a server by server basis.

Edit: I'm not BLAMING anyone. I'm saying you have that choice to make. It is within your power n yours alone. If you can't comprehend that then that's a you problem. You've made it clear you ARENT trying to discuss a damn thing. I've brought up many points with factual info to back what I'm saying. You have not. And you want to call others trolls...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazhar

Don't know if it comes from there but it was part of Mark Rosewater's 20 years 20 lessons presentation at GDC 2016. This is also common game designer wisdom. Listen to criticism, not suggestions.
Which is why I believe criticism is healthy for the game even when it's not "constructive". Just saying "I don't like X" is a more valuable information than people give it credit.

---

Ironic coming from MaRo in hindsight. Burn WOTC! BURN! J/k, thrilled for the potential crossover for once.

OT: Still debating whether I want to answer this topic seriously. Probably not worth the effort.

Don't you people get bored of having the same discussion every time content is released? Sometimes the content is not for you and that's ok, just unsub for a while and play other games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sufjann

Don't you people get bored of having the same discussion every time content is released? Sometimes the content is not for you and that's ok, just unsub for a while and play other games.

---

Honestly you aren't wrong. This place is a lost cause trapped in a never ending cycle of mess. (Wouldn't be shocked if the devs think so as well).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sufjann

Don't you people get bored of having the same discussion every time content is released? Sometimes the content is not for you and that's ok, just unsub for a while and play other games.

---

Don't be so logical about it. Gosh...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dionysius

Remember last time "Forum" asking for Healer to have more things to heal and uLtiMaTE toO eAsy, we got Healers shortages across all DC. Good job with preventions.
If you don't have anything good to contribute, maybe just be quiet and let others with good ideas.

"The game is dying I must save it" is getting old.

---

You are so duplicitous it's unreal. First it's "No there are no shortages for healers! There are more healers in the game than ever! Game is more popular than ever!" when we were saying there were healer shortages in ShB and Asphodelos across the entire game due to the design direction SE took healers, now it's "There are healer shortages but it's because of YOU!" It can't be SE's fault for making the entire role boring, no, it's your fellow players for telling them that 1 button spam is boring garbage. If there's such a healer shortage, why don't you step up and heal yourself if healing is in a good spot? Funny how it's always die hard DPS and Tank mains telling us about our role that we play and they don't.

Quote:

---

If you don't have anything good to contribute, maybe just be quiet

---

The irony of this is lost on you, surely.

If you guys spent half as much energy actually debating your points instead of getting into pissing contests with people who disagree, we'd get much further here. The last few pages of this thread has gotten pretty cringe, ngl.

SE is always pretty averse to listening to feedback if it comes from a place of overt negativity, YoshiP has said as much. Let's be honest with ourselves here: Despite the game's issues, this dev team actually seems to care more about what we think than most other mmos out there right now. Take a look at WoW and it's history, since that's XIV's primary competitor. If you've played that game for any length of time, you know how it is over there. They'll release a new expansion, but during the beta test, a huge swath of the player base will notice many glaring issues that are going to cause problems long-term. The player-base tells Blizzard about these problems, repeatedly, pleadingly. Their response, 9 times out of 10, is to leave things the way they are because the developers are ridiculously stubborn over there and think they know better about what their player-base wants, than the player-base itself. Then 2 years later, they do a developer live-stream talking about the next expansion and how they're finally addressing all the problems we've been screaming about, 2 years late. This cycle has repeated itself in pretty much every single WoW expansion I've taken part in. SE at least seem to hear our feedback and endeavor to do something about it much quicker than their competition. They seem more engaged in the back & forth discussion between dev team and player-base.

I'm just trying to find a silver lining here, as I'm definitely not a shill. XIV has some serious issues right now, most of which, in my view, stem from this game's content release "framework" or "formula". It has grown entirely stale. They are so fundamentally RIGID on this content formula they've been using since pretty much ARR. The Variant/Criterion Dungeon is the first step in expanding this game's horizons a bit, but it needs to be adjusted and it needs to be tied into the main gear progression pathway as far as I'm concerned. The savage content especially should be. The good news is that the dungeons award tokens, meaning that we can save them now in preparation for further rewards to be added to the vendor. Which needs to happen. TLDR: I really just think CBU3/SE need to start thinking outside the box MORE in terms of the content "formula" this game has relied upon for a decade now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EryxGG

I'm just trying to find a silver lining here, as I'm definitely not a shill. XIV has some serious issues right now, most of which, in my view, stem from this game's content release "framework" or "formula". It has grown entirely stale. They are so fundamentally RIGID on this content formula they've been using since pretty much ARR. The Variant/Criterion Dungeon is the first step in expanding this game's horizons a bit, but it needs to be adjusted and it needs to be tied into the main gear progression pathway as far as I'm concerned. The savage content especially should be. The good news is that the dungeons award tokens, meaning that we can save them now in preparation for further rewards to be added to the vendor. Which needs to happen. TLDR: I really just think CBU3/SE need to start thinking outside the box MORE in terms of the content "formula" this game has relied upon for a decade now.

---

While I do agree on them trying to think outside the box (and lets be honest this 6.2 has been giving us different ideas for content with IS and now Variant dungeons), but I dont necessarily believe that should come at the expense at a content formula thats been tested again and again to work with both the majority of the community and the health of the game itself. Basically why fix something that isnt broken. There's too many games out there that WISH they had the level of consistency of content release as FFXIV. The best I want for the team is to further polish what they've already established. Variant/Criterion dungeons are very fun and its definitely an idea that breaks the mold of the standard "dungeon" design we've come to expect with the game. I just want to see this get expanded and definitely make it an avenue to be an alternate way of gearing up alt jobs with perhaps being a way to acquire twines/roborants or give out one of those special items for augmenting crafted gear? There's a number of ways they could go for dishing out rewards upon completion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EryxGG

snip

---

https://media.tenor.com/CKBpHuAklrMA...n-applause.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Patch day has arrived. It was an update that I didn’t expect to be quite content heavy, but even so the situation regarding what just released today has to be addressed. The game right now is light on content and for all the hype about Criterion/Variant Dungeons, they released with ill-fitting, extremely limited rewards that will soon leave players without a reason to return to the content for who knows how long. Not like we haven’t run into situations before just last expansion when a lack of rewards for content like CLL made it irrelevant within a span of 2 weeks. A pink mouse, a generic throne, and yet another modern glamset. I truly wonder what about the feedback of people being fed up with these clothes and wanting more fantasy all-class gear is too hard to address. If it even makes it through to the proper channels, but rather than face criticism it seems they’d rather pander to the less-mature subset of players that congregate on Twitter – from whom they can expect nothing but unconditional positivity.

For a blessing, the Manderville Weapons aren’t the dreaded joke weapons from the Weapon Design Contest but all it takes to get one is 1500 poetics? Seriously? Did they forget how much of a mistake it was when they did poetics for Shadowbringers relics as well? Forget “accessibility” – anyone who wants an easy weapon to get can buy one off the marketboard. They could’ve at least spiced things up by...oh wait, the Relic Zones were scrapped entirely this expansion instead of releasing in the .25 patch like back in Stormblood. Any fates with interesting mechanics won’t be seen until 7.X, if even that, with the only other options being overworld fates with basic aoes or Alliance Raids that haven’t aged well in terms of balancing. I cannot imagine what appeal these weapons would have for us veteran players who likely already own a good number of relics, let alone those of us unwilling to suffer through the torment of the Hildibrand quests – with even more of that sort of writing apparently being present in the Omicron beast tribe storyline. Seems like even the Pixies had a darker plot to their quests, and they involved a literal candyland.

We’ve been here before – it seriously feels like the Covid content drought all over again but instead of finishing off with something like Bozja all we got was one of many entirely forgettable modern glamsets and another relic step that made the same mistakes as 5.25’s. Anyone could see the mistakes that were made in the past when it came to all this stuff and instead of improving, they just doubled down and repeated them all over again. How on earth is this ok?

---

You're wasting your time. They don't care!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SannaR

Gotta love people in here trashing on someone who had to leave an active war zone and ever since then has been trying to find somewhere not only to live but work. All of these interruptions has put a lot of stress, strain and with how both Twitch and YouTube work is also a financial loss. So, she's chosen the fireside chats as a form of therapy. When she's not raiding. Also didn't think we'd get some ageism in here. Though I guess I shouldn't be too surprised considering the source with how some other opinions they have can be taken as sexist amongst other things.

---

What does being in a war zone, her age or being a woman have to do with her professionalism going down hill for a while now? I'm pretty sure none of those have any affect on it.

My issue is she brings up threads on here for views/bait and then doesn't look past the OPs post before commenting on it, pretty much ignoring any other type of reasoning given by other people here. If you're going to report on something, do your research and get more than one opinion before giving your own. All she did with her most recent video is make a joke out of someones opinion and that's an interesting choice for someone who's supposed to be "on the players side".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LianaThorne

What does being in a war zone, her age or being a woman have to do with her professionalism going down hill for a while now? I'm pretty sure none of those have any affect on it.

---

Now now please dont use too much common sense, you cant call out someone on what they do wrong without being called a sexist and an ageist. It's 2022.

Any sort of criticism is not allowed, it's all about toxic positivity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LianaThorne

What does being in a war zone, her age or being a woman have to do with her professionalism going down hill for a while now? I'm pretty sure none of those have any affect on it.

My issue is she brings up threads on here for views/bait and then doesn't look past the OPs post before commenting on it, pretty much ignoring any other type of reasoning given by other people here. If you're going to report on something, do your research and get more than one opinion before giving your own.

---

You lost me on this whole "professionalism" thing. She's just a gamer / content creator / streamer. This is twitch / youtube, not ESPN. It's too bad your boyfriend there has thin skin and can't actually stand his opinion being picked apart and happened to give many people a good laugh. That's what happens when you post your opinion about the critically acclaimed MMO FFXIV in a space like this, where some of these folks likely lurk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

1) Many players have yet to do Hildibrand. This means they will have hours of cutscenes ahead of them. Some might not like this content, but Endwalker was 40 hours of cutscenes and two hours of raiding (not including queue times). People like this, so I’m sure they’ll like the relics too.

2) The devs have always said that this is a “stop-and-go” type of game. Yoshida tells us to unsubscribe when we’re bored. He and SE clearly don’t expect this game to hold our attention like World of Warcraft or other MMOs, and that’s fine. That game charges a sub too, and I don’t want to pay two at once. Just do as Yoshida says and sub a couple times a year. It’s a small game and most of it is reading. I like reading, but I read fast, so this game is over quickly for me. That’s just how FFXIV is, just like the other Final Fantasy games. Play it, finish it, and put it down. It’s not a “serious” MMO.

---

1) 2 hours of cutscene skipping isnt a problem, if people find that tiresome, MMO's obviously arent for them. (p.s. these are the same people that spend 10 hours a day in island sanctuary lmao)

2) its an MMO. Regardless of what they say, the game is advertised and marketed as an MMO. There are expectations with that title.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Any sort of criticism is not allowed, it's all about toxic positivity.

---

This Lie should really stop being spread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Consider this: I literally do not care. Those things don't change the fact that this game is in quite the state.

---

What state?
Be clear, not ambiguous and expect us to just take your side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

This Lie should really stop being spread.

---

It's only spread really buy the very people complaining. Most people aren't saying you can't criticize. They just have different views when it comes to things people criticize. It's odd they talk about toxic positivity while being passive aggressive.

I ask anyone reading this, how often do you see people say the game is perfect n needs nothing fixed here? People here seem to only deal in extremes n absolutes. If folks apparently aren't allowed to criticize the game it would also seem folks aren't allowed to love it either

I will say this. The patches have been lackluster a lot. Housing is joke. 4 months to fully gear out a class. They want to keep this game going for 10 more years? If this is all they have to offer it won't last another 2 years at the rate the content has been going. They really need to start spicing up this game seriously. I have been thinking of going over to GW2 since combat is way better then FFXIV's. If a MMO comes out soon and ends up being really good I will say FFXIV will be very small population

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

You lost me on this whole "professionalism" thing. She's just a gamer / content creator / streamer. This is twitch / youtube, not ESPN. It's too bad your boyfriend there has thin skin and can't actually stand his opinion being picked apart and happened to give many people a good laugh. That's what happens when you post your opinion about the critically acclaimed MMO FFXIV in a space like this, where some of these folks likely lurk.

---

She's still a public figure and has a voice that affects the community with how popular she is, what's your point? Do only sports commentators need to be professional now? Lol

Also what boyfriend? I'm discussing her and her video regarding this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

The devs have always said that this is a “stop-and-go” type of game. Yoshida tells us to unsubscribe when we’re bored. He and SE clearly don’t expect this game to hold our attention like World of Warcraft or other MMOs, and that’s fine. That game charges a sub too, and I don’t want to pay two at once. Just do as Yoshida says and sub a couple times a year. It’s a small game and most of it is reading. I like reading, but I read fast, so this game is over quickly for me. That’s just how FFXIV is, just like the other Final Fantasy games. Play it, finish it, and put it down. It’s not a “serious” MMO.

---

Unless you have a house. Then you’re trapped for life!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

I will say this. The patches have been lackluster a lot. Housing is joke. 4 months to fully gear out a class. They want to keep this game going for 10 more years? If this is all they have to offer it won't last another 2 years at the rate the content has been going. They really need to start spicing up this game seriously. I have been thinking of going over to GW2 since combat is way better then FFXIV's. If a MMO comes out soon and ends up being really good I will say FFXIV will be very small population

---

It doesn't take 4 months to gear a class tho. And its been this way for the last 8 years, why would it suddenly be terrible and take a nose dive?

Personally, I found GW2 combat boring, since at the time I played, it was just a big zerg since there were no dedicated healers or tanks.

I've tried going to other MMOs after XIV came out, and they all paled in comparison. Controls were clunky, UI wasn't as good, etc.

People have been bringing up Ashes a lot recently, but I'm beginning to wonder if that will ever release. I went to an alpha event at PAX like 5 years ago...

As a legit MMO veteran, I can tell you it's going to be a very long time before anything can even attempt to unseat XIV from its spot. It's one of the worst genres to develop for, so someone has to come in with just as much passion and financial backing and then get several years in live before they can be considered better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

As a legit MMO veteran, I can tell you it's going to be a very long time before anything can even attempt to unseat XIV from its spot. It's one of the worst genres to develop for, so someone has to come in with just as much passion and financial backing and then get several years in live before they can be considered better.

---

Thing is, with how bad xiv is according to some it should be easy to top it no?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sufjann

Don't you people get bored of having the same discussion every time content is released? Sometimes the content is not for you and that's ok, just unsub for a while and play other games.

---

oh come on. I just bought 3 games on sale and I was still playing 14 last night >_>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Thing is, with how bad xiv is according to some it should be easy to top it no?

---

Which, of course, only goes to show that it's actually doing very well. I'm amused by the one person commenting "it'll be gone in 2 years" when it's currently at the apex of its entire lifespan. EW had the highest population to start any expansion, and even the late-patch "lulls" have kept a much higher active playerbase than similar "lulls" in past expansions. Not to mention the "rate the content is going" is the same rate it's been going at for a long time, and the game is only getting more popular.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

As a legit MMO veteran, I can tell you it's going to be a very long time before anything can even attempt to unseat XIV from its spot. It's one of the worst genres to develop for, so someone has to come in with just as much passion and financial backing and then get several years in live before they can be considered better.

---

I have high hopes for ashes of creation and the league of legends MMO, but then again there have been plenty of MMOs in the past that claimed they would surpass wow or FF. I'll believe it when I see it happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

I have high hopes for ashes of creation and the league of legends MMO, but then again there have been plenty of MMOs in the past that claimed they would surpass wow or FF. I'll believe it when I see it happen.

---

If League's MMO is anything like their MOBA, I dread over the balance of their classes...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

If League's MMO is anything like their MOBA, I dread over the balance of their classes...

---

Yeah, fingers crossed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

If League's MMO is anything like their MOBA, I dread over the balance of their classes...

---

Nah they'll just achieve "Balance" by Nerfing Irelia every patch... >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Nah they'll just achieve "Balance" by Nerfing Irelia every patch... >.>

---

https://i.redd.it/40wzu743xk541.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BaconBits

https://i.redd.it/40wzu743xk541.jpg

---

Lol.

There's also the question of whether or not they fixed the player reporting system to address things like I experienced long ago when I actually played LoL and regularly played Jungle Lollypoppy in ranked before she was reworked just to see all 9 other ppl in the game report me for trolling cause I played the champion I wanted and not one of the ones they wanted and proceeded to faceroll the other team into surrender... I also remember the same thing happening with Singed in ranked where ppl threw a fit I about me killing off all the top lane spawns before they could reach the middle of the map by leaving his fart cloud in the lane between the first and second turrets...

Funny enough I never actually got any kind of ban or disciplinary action despite having a player report count that dwarfed the ppl they did ban lol. XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

If League's MMO is anything like their MOBA, I dread over the balance of their classes...

---

Best prepare for whatever class sells the most cosmestics to never be nerfed harder than a tiny slap on the wrist. YasuoYone

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

Best prepare for whatever class sells the most cosmestics to never be nerfed harder than a tiny slap on the wrist. YasuoYone

---

Of course not. Can't let the money makers become less enticing to play so that Riot makes less off of their skins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

Best prepare for whatever class sells the most cosmestics to never be nerfed harder than a tiny slap on the wrist. YasuoYone

---

See, I read that as "the meta will be defined by which champion has the most skins".

Lux will be meta. Ornn will be there in the roster.

Quote:

---

ashes of creation

---

Yeah Ive heard its release date is around the same time as Star Citizen.

In 2450.

https://media.tenor.com/XsuZxY4vwpEA...tony-stark.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

I will say this. The patches have been lackluster a lot. Housing is joke. 4 months to fully gear out a class. They want to keep this game going for 10 more years? If this is all they have to offer it won't last another 2 years at the rate the content has been going. They really need to start spicing up this game seriously. I have been thinking of going over to GW2 since combat is way better then FFXIV's. If a MMO comes out soon and ends up being really good I will say FFXIV will be very small population

---

They need to do more things like Eureka, and Bozja in terms of longevity between patches, considering it takes them forever to release the next fun thing we need something in between to keep us tied over that can last for months.