I appreciate Square Enix supporting LGBT rights in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

I love saying they're gay because of how mad all the insecure snowflakes get about it, but I actually don't think they are. Conventional ideas of sexuality tend to break down in close enough friendships anyways, especially when it's not between two cishet dudes that are desperate to prove how straight they are.

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you must be popular. /s

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Originally Posted by Sclair0

I'm just pointing out you're clearly nuts if you think kissing is as explicit as "a long drawn out sex scene just to make you feel better" which is what you wrote right?

If you dont want romance in any games thats a weird, but fine take, nobody needs to like the same genres. But If you find the concept of any romance super lewd then I feel really sorry for you.

Something tells me though that you didn't voice any opposition to FF10, FF15 or Kingdom Hearts.

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never played those two. Did they also have romance scenes of children? Guess I'll never know. You do seem really triggered. Why?

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

I love saying they're gay because of how mad all the insecure snowflakes get about it, but I actually don't think they are. Conventional ideas of sexuality tend to break down in close enough friendships anyways, especially when it's not between two cishet dudes that are desperate to prove how straight they are.

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This can be said by the side opposing you as well.

It's quite interesting to see terms used in 'discourse' that I never see wielded outside of the social media sphere.

I'm super triggered! Tilted to the extreme degree by your incredibly well thought out and reasonable argument that two kids kissing is the same as a long drawn out sex scene! How did I never see such logic before, I will never watch another Disney Movie the same way again. Truly you have uncovered the masterful gay conspiracy of putting child porn in Final Fantasy games and have not at all attempted to cover it up by adding "U mad bro" as a closing argument to distract from how crazy your argument is.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

This can be said by the side opposing you as well.

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I don't really care about what "could be said" about people who are wrong.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

I don't really care about what "could be said" about people who are wrong.

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Who is wrong? The ones the offical line support, or the one headcanoning their fantasy onto other people?

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Originally Posted by RhaesDaenys

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...r1QIn_uxL8.jpg

Sure. Just two gal pals holding hands in a very 'we are in a relationship' way.

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Are you a troll or being serious? They’re holding hands? Jesus christ everyone must be in a relationship with their parents when they’re holding hands trying to cross the street as a child. The more you know

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Originally Posted by RhaesDaenys

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...r1QIn_uxL8.jpg

Sure. Just two gal pals holding hands in a very 'we are in a relationship' way.

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I don't think that there's anything particularly suggestive about that image. It's a pair of close female friends holding hands...which isn't uncommon for female friends to do. Nor is it necessarily indicative of anything deeper than a friendship when two young women go out for cake and coffee together or on a shopping trip.

Much in the same way that - despite being gay myself - it doesn't mean I'm sleeping with my straight male friends if we go for a drink at the pub together or share a tent when out camping, hiking or fishing.

There's already LGBT characters that exist explicitly within the game world, at any rate - so surely there would be nothing stopping the writers from just announcing outright if Ryne and Gaia were actually in a relationship.

People are free to believe what they like, though there's nothing wrong with others not believing the duo to be in an established relationship when nothing official exists.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

People are free to believe what they like, though there's nothing wrong with others not believing the duo to be in an established relationship when nothing official exists.

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While I agree with your take on the poster. I would say that there are bigger issues in having the central characters of a piece of content be openly LGBT that might impede them from writing explicit romance for a gay couple. (e.g. localising the Eden raid in China for example). Not saying that is a major factor here, it definitely might not be, but it is why we often see LGBT minor or background characters in media but not as major ones. Much easier to write out for localisation. (Star Wars clipping out the gay kiss of those two background characters overseas for example)

Who cares? Why was this brought back up again.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Who is wrong?

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Everyone who gets so butthurt over another's interpretation of their relationship, obviously.

there's nothing to interpret, though, but you already know that
though, virtue signalling and trolling to stick it to the insecure "cishet straights", despite not caring about it, wouldn't that make you the snowflake?

edit: I win, yay! also I'll have the last word!

Sure, buddy. You're free to think whatever you want that makes you feel like you got one up on me.

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Originally Posted by RhaesDaenys

Sure. Just two gal pals holding hands in a very 'we are in a relationship' way.

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Fun fact: male friends in India hold hands.

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

Fun fact: male friends in India hold hands.

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kind of sad that many men don't do it because they might be considered gay if they're seen doing it and could result in nasty rumours, even though I know a few 'cishets' who'd love to be able to be as 'touchy feely' as gals without being, well, seen as batting for the other team, same with showing emotions
these societal double standards are actually kinda sexist, tbh

Theres no evidence to suggest they were a couple.

It's a shame the Ryne and Gaia sitation is very... queerbaity. I adore them and think it would be great if they where LGBTQ+, but I get the feeling thats not the case. Prove me wrong Yoshi ion future updates please!

Overall I must admit, I do wish that we could get another explicate LGBTQ+ character in the game... we have not really had any since the post ARR patch's, from what I can tell. Doesn’t even have to be a main character (Though that would be neat!) but given how often we interact with side characters who mention their wives and husbands etc would it really hurt if the odd one happened to have a same sex partner?

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

kind of sad that many men don't do it because they might be considered gay if they're seen doing it and could result in nasty rumours, even though I know a few 'cishets' who'd love to be able to be as 'touchy feely' as gals without being, well, seen as batting for the other team, same with showing emotions
these societal double standards are actually kinda sexist, tbh

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Yeah, but it's also their culture not to do it. Who is anyone to dictate someone elses culture?

Also, men holding hands is the least of Indias social problems.

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Originally Posted by RhaesDaenys

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...r1QIn_uxL8.jpg

Sure. Just two gal pals holding hands in a very 'we are in a relationship' way.

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Wow this poster gives me heavy T.a.t.u. vibes, and given how popular they were in Japan in 00s I wonder if they maybe took some inspiration from them?

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

It's a shame the Ryne and Gaia sitation is very... queerbaity. I adore them and think it would be great if they where LGBTQ+, but I get the feeling thats not the case. Prove me wrong Yoshi ion future updates please!

Overall I must admit, I do wish that we could get another explicate LGBTQ+ character in the game... we have not really had any since the post ARR patch's, from what I can tell. Doesn’t even have to be a main character (Though that would be neat!) but given how often we interact with side characters who mention their wives and husbands etc would it really hurt if the odd one happened to have a same sex partner?

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No thank you, every time its done, it tries to put focus on that rather than the story. So many TV series and movies ruined by forced inclusivity.

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Originally Posted by Windwalker

No thank you, every time its done, it tries to put focus on that rather than the story. So many TV series and movies ruined by forced inclusivity.

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The Last of us 2 comes to mind for a game, and Batwoman comes to mind for a show. Yeah, if it's forced, it can break the suspension of disbelief at how it's typically presented now.

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Originally Posted by AlyaNimfa

Yeah, but it's also their culture not to do it. Who is anyone to dictate someone elses culture?

Also, men holding hands is the least of Indias social problems.

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how do you even get that message from my post? dictating culture? indian societal problems? ?????
I was just lamenting the fact that I find it sad that guys can't hold hands like girls do without possibly getting ridiculed for it lmao

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Originally Posted by Windwalker

No thank you, every time its done, it tries to put focus on that rather than the story. So many TV series and movies ruined by forced inclusivity.

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Maybe you should watch better TV series/movies or be less overly sensitive regarding simple things as someone being gay? Geez. What's the problem in a character citing their partner or having their "crush" be from the same sex? What would change? For example, within FFXIV universe, you have Moenbryda/Urianger, Ardbert/Lamitt, Shiva/Hraesvelgr, Fourchenault/Ameliance, Edda/Avere, Bahamuth/Tiamat, Mide/Dayan... all of them are couples or have some sort of romantic relationship inside the story, would they ruin things for you if they weren't heterosexual? Are they forced? What would change if Shiva was a man, or Lamitt?

Kinda ridiculous to feel like a history is "ruined" because of something so common. Funny how anything that's not the status-quo is "forced".

I wonder if people with your mindset get as angry with other bunch of forced tropes all over media, but I bet you don't. People have been shipping characters since forever, romance exists in storytelling (and quite a lot in video-game storytelling), I don't get what's the point of making a big deal out of this.

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Originally Posted by Nabril

Put it in a romance story then! Do you have trouble with reading comprehension? This is a video game

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Funny, since FF14 has romance subtext (your entire heavenward expansion has a romance backstory), a lot of Final Fantasies have romance (ff8, ff9, ff10, ff15), games with romance such as TW3, Dragon Age, Mass Effect are extremely popular... Being a video-game has nothing to do with having romance or not. You might have zero interest in that, but it doesn't change the fact that it still exists and is part of the story - sometimes quite crucial.

Anyway, I personally see them as friends but couldn't care less about people shipping - whatever, teens get crushes too - but the way that people feel beyond angry with randos shipping gays in a video game or gays in games in general is quite amusing. Y'all should be ashamed by wasting such anger into something that doesn't even affect you (and if it does, well... there you have, a problem you should work on).

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Originally Posted by Vav2021

The Last of us 2 comes to mind for a game, and Batwoman comes to mind for a show. Yeah, if it's forced, it can break the suspension of disbelief at how it's typically presented now.

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Batwoman was gay in the comics, way before it got a TV show, but go off, I guess.

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Originally Posted by rachcouture

Batwoman was gay in the comics, way before it got a TV show, but go off, I guess.

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CW did a horrific job of portraying Batwoman in their tv series, along with every single character on there.

Vav2021, I'm sure of, has nothing against Batwoman being gay. He's just pointing out that the show was terrible, not Batwoman for being gay.

CW's Batwoman is a huge example on how to not write a character period. She literally wouldn't shut up about her sexuality for a single second. There's being proud of who or what you are and then there's Batwoman both in and outside of costume telling everybody and their grandma that she's gay every episode. Like she deserved a Metal and key to the city for her sexuality or something.

In the comics, Batwoman was just who she was: Batwoman! A badass crime fighter that dealt with the traumas of her past while, like the rest of the Bat family. Not letting it define who or what she is. She just so happened to be gay, and that was it.

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

It's a shame the Ryne and Gaia sitation is very... queerbaity.

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Its not. They just became very good close friends.
But for some reason all of a sudden 2 Girls being Good Friends means "Same-Sex Couple" and people wanna claim LGBT, when its not even there.

I think its Humorous that People aren't just saying its a Personal Head-canon, but instead want to claim they are In-Canon Gay.

Id love a game where the developers say that all the characters are asexual, aromantic, robots. Problem Solved.

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Originally Posted by EmoPanther

Id love a game where the developers say that all the characters are asexual, aromantic, robots. Problem Solved.

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You joke but that is close to several sci fi stories. I'd play it depending on gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

But for some reason all of a sudden 2 Girls being Good Friends means "Same-Sex Couple" and people wanna claim LGBT, when its not even there.

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I don't think it's definitive either way (intentionally imo) but I do think "all of a sudden" and "It's not even there" are a bit close to overstatements. The allusions to the Shoujo Ai genre are pretty strong, parallels with the romantic plotlines of FF8, the main villain being Mitron who we know definitively did have romantic feelings for her.

I don't think that's code for "Definitely 100% gay in canon" but there's definitely intentional romantic subtext there, similar subtext has been used in things like Sora and Kairis relationship in KH1. Seems to me to be intentionally be written with implications, but ultimately left ambiguous. (Which is itself like, the way Shoujo Ai genre stories are mostly done)

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Originally Posted by Sclair0

the main villain being Mitron who we know definitively did have romantic feelings for her.

I don't think that's code for "Definitely 100% gay in canon" but there's definitely intentional romantic subtext there

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...which also exists for mitron and gaia, even more so considering she promises him that 'they'll meet again' as she's rejecting her destiny of being an ascian
this also could very well mean that she's harbouring feelings for him, hell, it's even more spelled out than any possible feelings for ryne she might have

wow, can this be closed at this point? For those that do not know. The op is a known troll. they create topics like this all the time. Notice how often that he commented on this post. Look at the time when this "randomly" shows up again. they are legitly doing this purpose just to rile people

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

...which also exists for mitron and gaia, even more so considering she promises him that 'they'll meet again' as she's rejecting her destiny of being an ascian
this also could very well mean that she's harbouring feelings for him, hell, it's even more spelled out than any possible feelings for ryne she might have

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Yeah, that's definitely explicit in the text. I'm not trying to get into any shipping wars. Just saying that people who say there's literally no romantic framing of Ryne and Gaia aren't correct. There's loads of conventional romantic framing techniques at play.

Does anyone remember a time when games could just be games without political or social motivated agendas being pushed out to random people?

Pepperidge farms remembers!

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Originally Posted by SuperSxyNerd

Does anyone remember a time when games could just be games without political or social motivated agendas being pushed out to random people?

Pepperidge farms remembers!

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Not really. It's been like this for a long time, since the time of the rhetoric of the video game industry being as big as the movie industry at least. There are always people who will want to see themselves or their community represented in a medium, even if it comes at the expense of the game/film/whatever.

Personally I'm pretty blasé about lesbians in video games. It's been done so much over the past decade. Gay men are rarer, or often get badly depicted. Though I think as far as representation goes, it really comes down to social pressures of the day and fads. Not everyone can be represented at every time so calls for specific forms of representation in the coming years will likely be centered on niche collections of identities.

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Originally Posted by SuperSxyNerd

Does anyone remember a time when games could just be games without political or social motivated agendas being pushed out to random people?

Pepperidge farms remembers!

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Imagine thinking being gay is an 'agenda', or political, as opposed to simply being.

Still waiting till at least one Major character actually is confirmed as LGBT.

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Originally Posted by SuperSxyNerd

Does anyone remember a time when games could just be games without political or social motivated agendas being pushed out to random people?

Pepperidge farms remembers!

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Yet a straight couple isn't political but a LGBT couple is? What hypocrisy.

You sound like those that were against interracial marriages. You just moved the goal post because you lost that battle so you're now punching down against another minority.

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Originally Posted by Windwalker

No thank you, every time its done, it tries to put focus on that rather than the story. So many TV series and movies ruined by forced inclusivity.

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Something tells me that when a straight couple happens you don't see it as "Forced Inclusivity". That's what makes your argument one of bad faith and exposes your true views.

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Originally Posted by SuperSxyNerd

Does anyone remember a time when games could just be games without political or social motivated agendas being pushed out to random people?

Pepperidge farms remembers!

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Of course I do. Good old times when there were only two genders (male and political), two skin colours (white and political) and two sexualities (straight and political). Your understanding of what is normal and what is an agenda is inherently political.

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Originally Posted by SuperSxyNerd

Does anyone remember a time when games could just be games without political or social motivated agendas being pushed out to random people?

Pepperidge farms remembers!

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Yup. Why can we not go back to times when games that had no political or social agenda, like Fallout, Deus Ex, Metal Gear Solid, Bioshock etc.

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Originally Posted by Windwalker

No thank you, every time its done, it tries to put focus on that rather than the story. So many TV series and movies ruined by forced inclusivity.

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So we should just never have LGBTQ+ character for fear it may be forced? Would having just a few NPCs refer to their same sex partner in the exact way many do in-game now really spoil the story? What about the hundreds of times media forced hetro relationships at the expense of story (I saw people mention Batwoman, but what about the horror that is Olicity?)

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Originally Posted by SuperSxyNerd

Does anyone remember a time when games could just be games without political or social motivated agendas being pushed out to random people?

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Never. I can't get remember one single game, book or serie that I have consumed that didn't use something that exists in our own world to craft storytelling.