6.0 Predictions: Will it be Garlemald, Sharlayan, or Meracydia?

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Originally Posted by Kesey

Because taking the over the palace stops the civil war that erupted following the death of Solus. Fandaniel wearing the skin of an influential person allows the people to not question who he is. Giving them control of the Empire and it's resources to say, idk, start the end of the world. The real question is what will they do bring back Zodiark? And why do they need an army to do it? Probably because we are going anywhere but the Empire.

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I really don't think taking over the palace stops the civil war. If anything slaughtering people at their seat of governance is more likely to turn everything into total anarchy and lead the Legions to be more autonomous forces, because there's no orders coming from anyone they'd be willing to follow.

Rather than the subversion in 6.0 being WHERE we go, it may be WHY we go there. Instead of conquering Garlemald, it'll be to save them from Zenos' tyranny.

As an aside, I don't think he needs to go anywhere else to get his big Primal battle either - Supposedly there's a gigantic hole in the Garlean capital that happens to lead to the strongest Primal of all time. Why should Zenos settle for Zodiark locked in the moon, already fallen and defeated, when he can take the force that sundered him, which happens to be plugged directly into the greatest font of aether in existence? On this, I don't think it's a coincidence that Venat means "hunter".

So, yeah, if I was placing bets, Garlemald would be number one in the odds.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

As an aside, I don't think he needs to go anywhere else to get his big Primal battle either - Supposedly there's a gigantic hole in the Garlean capital that happens to lead to the strongest Primal of all time. Why should Zenos settle for Zodiark locked in the moon, already fallen and defeated, when he can take the force that sundered him, which happens to be plugged directly into the greatest font of aether in existence? On this, I don't think it's a coincidence that Venat means "hunter".

So, yeah, if I was placing bets, Garlemald would be number one in the odds.

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Before I play devil's advocate, where did they say there is a gigantic hole in the Garlean capital? That nonetheless leads to the strongest primal of all time (which isn't Zodiark?? Who is clearly in the moon)? Are you trying to say Hydealyn is under the capital (because she did the sundering and she is in the aetherial sea not the capital)? And they will then use Hydaelyn like a battery for aether (she is severly weakened therefore probably not the font of aether she's cracked up to be?)?

Also, I agree we need to speak with Venat, who will "return in the form of their choice" and yes it means hunter. But this could be a reference not the "hunt" for prey but the "hunt" of knowledge, as the hunter is the symbol that represents the astrological sign for Sagittarius, whose personality's pursue or question truth, knowledge, and new ideas. And for a person that defied the entire Ancient's culture to summon Hydaelyn as her heart because they believed in the idea that Zodiark will still bring the apocalypse, kind of fits. It fits even better when realized that the Ancients were into constellations and named their elder primal after the zodiac. But bringing this back around to Zenos, are you saying that Zenos is Venat or a reference to Venat?

This is a bit of a weird tangent, but...

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Originally Posted by Kesey

Also, I agree we need to speak with Venat, who will "return in the form of their choice" and yes it means hunter. But this could be a reference not the "hunt" for prey but the "hunt" of knowledge, as the hunter is the symbol that represents the astrological sign for Sagittarius, whose personality's pursue or question truth, knowledge, and new ideas.

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This got my gears turning, and I went and looked up the Sagittarius Lucavi to make sure I remembered who it was and what she was known for. Sure enough, it's Shemhazai, the Whisperer/the Betrayer (English/Japanese titles respectively). The clan primer bio for her from FFXII has this to say:

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Scion that is both horse and woman, wielding utter control over the souls that wander the underworld, in opposition to the Martyr Igeyorhm, scion of light. Though she once served the gods as a guardian, when Ultima announced her rebellion, Shemhazai went to her, whispering of the gods' hidden weaknesses. She then descended upon the land without leave of the gods, and taught men of destruction and evil. For this was she stricken down and bound.

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And having refreshed my memory on this, I can't help but notice some odd parallels between her and Hydaelyn and Minfilia. Hydaelyn, existing at the heart of the aetherial sea, is as close to controlling the souls of the underworld as anything in XIV can hope to be. And like Minfilia, Shemhazai both served as guardian for her patron gods and later on acted as an oracle. But whereas Minfilia parted with Hydaelyn on good terms and was acting in her stead, Shemhazai betrayed her masters and acted against them. Also of interest is the Scion of Light she was created in opposition to—Igeyorhm, who 5.3 elevated above the rest of the Sundered Ascians to some extent.

Again, all of this is a very weird tangent, and none of it has anything to do with what we might be doing come 6.0. It's just cork board conspiracy theorizing, really. But if it's not absolute rubbish, I can't help but wonder now if the mysterious "fairy" behind Gaia's powers is actually Igeyorhm. Aside from certain hard facts—namely that we killed her in an apparently permanent fashion—she potentially fits the bill a bit more than the Ascian I expected it to be. Would be hell trying to explain how she "survived" us, though. Death is but a door, and time a window, I guess?

Gods, I wonder if we'll actually see Shemhazai in a later addition to Bozja. That'd be swell.

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Originally Posted by FrightfulNight

Exactly, we would get new villians, since 6.0 is the end of the season 1 storyline it makes sense that we would move on to the next arch afterwards and that includes new antagonist, they have done almost everything they can with Garlemald at this point, having new antagonist would be a great way to start the season 2 arch. Plus i believe Yoshi P. himself said he was looking at incorporating new antagonist so that it is not just the same old same old. Plus if Garlemald is not included in 6.0 then that means all that build up including the 5.3 final cutscene would be for nothing or would just be prolonged another expansion, that's annoying at this point, it has been prolonged long enough. They said SB was the beginning of the end of the Garlean story arch, and ShB was the same for the Ascian and Zodiark storyline so what better way then to have them both conclude in 6.0 since they are season 1 plotlines and it is the season 1 finale, anything else would not be satisfying to me.

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I agree with you.

My best guess for beginning a season 2 would be to use the "war between Allagan and Meracydia people" story.
It would be like returning to some of the fundation of the game, + have a use for Tiamat (Azys Lla returns), + a good way to introduce Meracydia lands.
I'm sure there is another brood on this 2nd landmasse (maybe ruling), and I expect Egyptian theme there (like in Lightning Return game).

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Originally Posted by Kesey

Before I play devil's advocate, where did they say there is a gigantic hole in the Garlean capital? That nonetheless leads to the strongest primal of all time (which isn't Zodiark?? Who is clearly in the moon)? Are you trying to say Hydealyn is under the capital (because she did the sundering and she is in the aetherial sea not the capital)? And they will then use Hydaelyn like a battery for aether (she is severly weakened therefore probably not the font of aether she's cracked up to be?)?

Also, I agree we need to speak with Venat, who will "return in the form of their choice" and yes it means hunter. But this could be a reference not the "hunt" for prey but the "hunt" of knowledge, as the hunter is the symbol that represents the astrological sign for Sagittarius, whose personality's pursue or question truth, knowledge, and new ideas. And for a person that defied the entire Ancient's culture to summon Hydaelyn as her heart because they believed in the idea that Zodiark will still bring the apocalypse, kind of fits. It fits even better when realized that the Ancients were into constellations and named their elder primal after the zodiac. But bringing this back around to Zenos, are you saying that Zenos is Venat or a reference to Venat?

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I'm saying that because Hydaelyn resides in the aetherial sea, she is directly connected to the source of all aether. If Zenos were to control her like he did Shinryu, he would have straight access to effectively infinite power. And yes, Zenos' obsession with "the hunt", the meaning of Venat's name, and the fact that he's been having vivid visions of the Final Days his entire life can't be a coincidence.

Also, narrativley, I don't really see a scenario where we just beat Zenos controlling a somehow-returned Zodiark, and that's the end of it. There's no way Hydaelyn is just left around either, and I don't see how else thet could send her out considering she doesn't even have enough strength to speak, let alone do some big sacrifice.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

And having refreshed my memory on this, I can't help but notice some odd parallels between her and Hydaelyn and Minfilia. Hydaelyn, existing at the heart of the aetherial sea, is as close to controlling the souls of the underworld as anything in XIV can hope to be. And like Minfilia, Shemhazai both served as guardian for her patron gods and later on acted as an oracle. But whereas Minfilia parted with Hydaelyn on good terms and was acting in her stead, Shemhazai betrayed her masters and acted against them. Also of interest is the Scion of Light she was created in opposition to—Igeyorhm, who 5.3 elevated above the rest of the Sundered Ascians to some extent.

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This makes me wonder...perhaps Zodiark and Hydaelyn were once the same being? If each Ascian has a "counterpart" to them like with Igeyorhm and Minfilia (or Gaia and Ryne) creating a balance, then wouldn't it be possible that since Zodiark and Hydaelyn are counterparts, they themselves may end fusing together in the end? We've had 7 Calamities, removing 7 shards. Leaving us with 6 shards (once the 13th is back on its feet) and the Source. 3 umbral leaning, 3 astral leaning, and the Source directly in the middle. Leaving a balanced scale.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

This makes me wonder...perhaps Zodiark and Hydaelyn were once the same being? If each Ascian has a "counterpart" to them like with Igeyorhm and Minfilia (or Gaius and Ryne) creating a balance, then wouldn't it be possible that since Zodiark and Hydaelyn are counterparts, they themselves may end fusing together in the end? We've had 7 Calamities, removing 7 shards. Leaving us with 6 shards (once the 13th is back on its feet) and the Source. 3 umbral leaning, 3 astral leaning, and the Source directly in the middle. Leaving a balanced scale.

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I'd figured that the whole "light and dark were once one" thing was dropped at some point, since it hasn't really come up again since 3.1. But it might actually be the case, yeah. It would be an interesting take on the idea of resolving the conflict between them through reconciliation rather than beating them to death, too. Or maybe we'll have to beat them both to death to make them combine, which... well, I guess that could work, maybe.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

I'd figured that the whole "light and dark were once one" thing was dropped at some point, since it hasn't really come up again since 3.1. But it might actually be the case, yeah. It would be an interesting take on the idea of resolving the conflict between them through reconciliation rather than beating them to death, too. Or maybe we'll have to beat them both to death to make them combine, which... well, I guess that could work, maybe.

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I figure it would be the option that makes the most sense. We've already been shown too much umbral or astal energy can be bad. Both Hydaelyn and Zodiark embody basically one of those aspects more than the other. Force them into a singular entity and the energies balance out. Difficult part would be working out what its "will" would be. Though I speculate they may go for an easy out. "Hear. Feel. Think. Live."

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

This is a bit of a weird tangent, but...



This got my gears turning, and I went and looked up the Sagittarius Lucavi to make sure I remembered who it was and what she was known for. Sure enough, it's Shemhazai, the Whisperer/the Betrayer (English/Japanese titles respectively). The clan primer bio for her from FFXII has this to say:



And having refreshed my memory on this, I can't help but notice some odd parallels between her and Hydaelyn and Minfilia. Hydaelyn, existing at the heart of the aetherial sea, is as close to controlling the souls of the underworld as anything in XIV can hope to be. And like Minfilia, Shemhazai both served as guardian for her patron gods and later on acted as an oracle. But whereas Minfilia parted with Hydaelyn on good terms and was acting in her stead, Shemhazai betrayed her masters and acted against them. Also of interest is the Scion of Light she was created in opposition to—Igeyorhm, who 5.3 elevated above the rest of the Sundered Ascians to some extent.

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This makes we wonder, if and when we find Venat, in whatever form they are currently in, may very well consider the summoning of Hydaelyn to have been a mistake as well. And to echo the posts made after this post I quoted above, that would put the idea that they are two halves of the same whole, each representing the umbral and astral end of life, are problem.

It could bring the end of season 1 to be an allegory that extreme beliefs to the nth degree will always create the worst thing for humanity.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

I'm saying that because Hydaelyn resides in the aetherial sea, she is directly connected to the source of all aether. If Zenos were to control her like he did Shinryu, he would have straight access to effectively infinite power. And yes, Zenos' obsession with "the hunt", the meaning of Venat's name, and the fact that he's been having vivid visions of the Final Days his entire life can't be a coincidence.

Also, narrativley, I don't really see a scenario where we just beat Zenos controlling a somehow-returned Zodiark, and that's the end of it. There's no way Hydaelyn is just left around either, and I don't see how else thet could send her out considering she doesn't even have enough strength to speak, let alone do some big sacrifice.

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I don't think that Hydaelyn is the source of aether, that comes from the star itself. Remember she is losing power, or at least was telling us she was losing her power when she was previously speaking with us. I still feel strongly the hunt connection for Venat is a call back to Sagittarius not Zenos, as to Zenos "the hunt" isn't a real hunt but combat where he is unchallenged (meaning his victims are only prey); he longs for a true fight that he can possibly lose which can only be provided by the WOL. The visions Zenos has of the Final Days may mean something deeper or could just be a reflection of how strong his resonate has grown. On that front we'll just have to wait and see will probably know sooner than later.

A pretty popular idea that has been tossed around the community is Hydaelyn will fight Zodiark through us and Zodiark fight Hydaelyn through Zenos; leading to WOL vs. Zenos fight. I personally wonder if Zenos is more powerful than an Ascian now and Fandaniel intends to use him as the "new" heart of Zodiark to make an ultimate elder primal. But you've implied that Zenos is Venat and that scenario is Zenos finally remembers long enough to switch sides to Hydaelyn and his whole character can be trashed and redeemed in one stroke. I guess its possible, but is Zenos worth redeeming? And if Hydaelyn is true enemy as you've also implied and Zenos is Venat then why is Zenos working with Ascians who are Hydaelyn's sworn enemy? Not sure that even fits with Hydaelyn as we know her, whose personality at this point could be dishonest, but her dishonestly falls in line with more of lie-by-omission then out right betrayal. Given these thought, I'm not buying Zenos is Venat plot.

The visions have nothing to do with Zenos' status as a Resonant as he claimed to have been having them for as long as he can remember.

I'm wholly convinced he's another reincarnated Ancient at this point, though who is still up in the air.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

I don't think that Hydaelyn is the source of aether, that comes from the star itself. Remember she is losing power, or at least was telling us she was losing her power when she was previously speaking with us.

A pretty popular idea that has been tossed around the community is Hydaelyn will fight Zodiark through us and Zodiark fight Hydaelyn through Zenos; leading to WOL vs. Zenos fight. I personally wonder if Zenos is more powerful than an Ascian now and Fandaniel intends to use him as the "new" heart of Zodiark to make an ultimate elder primal. But you've implied that Zenos is Venat and that scenario is Zenos finally remembers long enough to switch sides to Hydaelyn and his whole character can be trashed and redeemed in one stroke. I guess its possible, but is Zenos worth redeeming? And if Hydaelyn is true enemy as you've also implied and Zenos is Venat then why is Zenos working with Ascians who are Hydaelyn's sworn enemy? Not sure that even fits with Hydaelyn as we know her, whose personality at this point could be dishonest, but her dishonestly falls in line with more of lie-by-omission then out right betrayal. Given these thought, I'm not buying Zenos is Venat plot.

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I never said Hydaelyn is the source of aether, I said she's sitting in the source of aether, IE the Lifestream. Presumably the reason she continues to weaken is that, like Alexander, she chooses not to draw aether from the sea.

This is the very reason why Hydaelyn fighting Zodiark through WoL actually makes no sense. She's so weak that she actually brings nothing to the table in that scenario. In order to fight she would need a huge amount of aether, and if she's unwilling to draw upon the star's aether, there's basically nothing she can do in her current state. Meanwhile, whether or not Zenos is Venat, his ability to override the will of Primals could lead to him mantling Hydaelyn and using her connection to the Lifestream to gain almost infinite power and threaten the very survival of the planet.

The issue with the Zenos-as-Zodiark idea is that it's contradictory with what we know about the position he's in. Zodiark was sundered like everything else and locked in the moon, it's arguable whether or not he's cognizant, or even "alive". The Ascians have spent 12,000 years working towards his resurrection through the rejoining of the Source and shards, so how exactly is Zenos supposed to just become his new heart and suddenly he's both free and got the power to threaten the world? If that was possible you'd think the Ascians would have done it by now.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

Again, all of this is a very weird tangent, and none of it has anything to do with what we might be doing come 6.0. It's just cork board conspiracy theorizing, really. But if it's not absolute rubbish, I can't help but wonder now if the mysterious "fairy" behind Gaia's powers is actually Igeyorhm. Aside from certain hard facts—namely that we killed her in an apparently permanent fashion—she potentially fits the bill a bit more than the Ascian I expected it to be. Would be hell trying to explain how she "survived" us, though. Death is but a door, and time a window, I guess?

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It wouldn't be hard to explain Igeyorhm's survival. As a Sundered Ascian, she was only one of fourteen fragments of the original Igeyorhm. Even with several of the worlds Rejoined, there's probably a few more Igeyorhm soul fragments banging around out there, and any of them could be ascended to the role of an Ascian, if someone capable of doing so cared to do so.

We well and truly killed Igeyorhm - but what we killed was actually one fourteenth of Igeyorhm...

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Originally Posted by Kesey

I don't think that Hydaelyn is the source of aether, that comes from the star itself. Remember she is losing power, or at least was telling us she was losing her power when she was previously speaking with us.

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I don't think we have reason to doubt that Hydaelyn is losing power. We have an independent third party confirming it - Lahabrea. "Oh, Hyadaelyn... it seems the task of keeping your champion alive has exhausted what little strength you had left." This indicates both that Hydaelyn was ALREADY significantly drained even before Ultima, and that afterwards she was practically powerless. It's possible that Lahabrea was wrong, or overstating her weakness, but I don't think that he would have any good reason to lie for her benefit.

There are other ways to weasel around this. Just because she's out of power, doesn't mean she's STILL losing power. She might even be regaining some. She HAS mustered up the oomph to perform a few more miracles, such as adopting Minfilia as her own "Ascian" and saving the First. But I think we can take it as a given that at the end of the Praetorium, Hydaelyn was at an all-time low, and Lahabrea was entirely earnest in his gloating about it.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

The issue with the Zenos-as-Zodiark idea is that it's contradictory with what we know about the position he's in. Zodiark was sundered like everything else and locked in the moon, it's arguable whether or not he's cognizant, or even "alive". The Ascians have spent 12,000 years working towards his resurrection through the rejoining of the Source and shards, so how exactly is Zenos supposed to just become his new heart and suddenly he's both free and got the power to threaten the world? If that was possible you'd think the Ascians would have done it by now.

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The fact that Zodiark is sundered actually works toward the narrative's benefit if the goal is to have a WoL-versus-Zodiark finale. I think it's safe to say that our taking on a full-powered, in-his-prime Zodiark would be just silly. Original flavor Zodiark was ridiculously powerful; he could literally rewrite the laws of reality, if Emet wasn't exaggerating for theatrical effect. For us to take on a barely-sentient, freshly-awakened Zodiark under the thrall of a mortal with delusions of grandeur brings the battle to much more reasonable levels. We already made short work of another Primal Zenos manipulated in such a way; reduced-power Zodiark would be escalation, but not impossibility. Especially if we channel Hydaelyn, or something along those lines.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

I never said Hydaelyn is the source of aether, I said she's sitting in the source of aether, IE the Lifestream. Presumably the reason she continues to weaken is that, like Alexander, she chooses not to draw aether from the sea.

This is the very reason why Hydaelyn fighting Zodiark through WoL actually makes no sense. She's so weak that she actually brings nothing to the table in that scenario. In order to fight she would need a huge amount of aether, and if she's unwilling to draw upon the star's aether, there's basically nothing she can do in her current state. Meanwhile, whether or not Zenos is Venat, his ability to override the will of Primals could lead to him mantling Hydaelyn and using her connection to the Lifestream to gain almost infinite power and threaten the very survival of the planet.

The issue with the Zenos-as-Zodiark idea is that it's contradictory with what we know about the position he's in. Zodiark was sundered like everything else and locked in the moon, it's arguable whether or not he's cognizant, or even "alive". The Ascians have spent 12,000 years working towards his resurrection through the rejoining of the Source and shards, so how exactly is Zenos supposed to just become his new heart and suddenly he's both free and got the power to threaten the world? If that was possible you'd think the Ascians would have done it by now.

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Fandaniel enters the story to entice Zenos to Zodiark. That was at the end of 5.1. 5.3 ends with Zenos saying he is going to "reprise that transcendent moment" which he is referring to the time he became one with Shinryu. Hydaelyn, in her weaken state even in the aetherial sea, is a poor choice for what Zenos wants to do. Zenos is going to try and take Zodiark's power.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The visions have nothing to do with Zenos' status as a Resonant as he claimed to have been having them for as long as he can remember.

I'm wholly convinced he's another reincarnated Ancient at this point, though who is still up in the air.

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I'm starting to lean that way myself. And since the WOL was Azem, Venat (if alive) is a primal like Elidibus but on Hydealyn's side, known Ascians are all accounted for their ancient selves, that only leaves one ancient we know of, Hythlodaeus, who on one hand wouldn't seem like the type, but at the same time didn't join the split with Venat and called us "friend" just like Zenos refers to us as "friend". Is it possible Zenos is him?

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Originally Posted by Kesey

I'm starting to lean that way myself. And since the WOL was Azem, Venat (if alive) is a primal like Elidibus but on Hydealyn's side, known Ascians are all accounted for their ancient selves, that only leaves one ancient we know of, Hythlodaeus, who on one hand wouldn't seem like the type, but at the same time didn't join the split with Venat and called us "friend" just like Zenos refers to us as "friend". Is it possible Zenos is him?

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While possible, I'm guessing it's more possible that Urianger is Hythlodaeus. He always seems to know more than he lets on.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

Fandaniel enters the story to entice Zenos to Zodiark. That was at the end of 5.1. 5.3 ends with Zenos saying he is going to "reprise that transcendent moment" which he is referring to the time he became one with Shinryu. Hydaelyn, in her weaken state even in the aetherial sea, is a poor choice for what Zenos wants to do. Zenos is going to try and take Zodiark's power.

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What "power" does Zodiark have, exactly? Zenos has no reason to reprise a fight that he lost using an entity that itself was already beaten. And again, if the Ascians could just free Zodiark, why would they not have done it already? Moreover, why should any of them consent to handing over their god to an absolute madman who just wants to burn down everything to facilitate his "hunt"? I know Fandaniel seems just as crazy or even moreso, but if he's tempered even he has no motivation to do that. Nevermind the rest of the surviving Ascians.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

What "power" does Zodiark have, exactly? Zenos has no reason to reprise a fight that he lost using an entity that itself was already beaten. And again, if the Ascians could just free Zodiark, why would they not have done it already? Moreover, why should any of them consent to handing over their god to an absolute madman who just wants to burn down everything to facilitate his "hunt"? I know Fandaniel seems just as crazy or even moreso, but if he's tempered even he has no motivation to do that. Nevermind the rest of the surviving Ascians.

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The Ascians have been working toward summoning/reviving Zodiark. They need an 8th calamity/rejoining and the WOL has stopped the from accomplishing this every time. Furthermore, I'm not sure Zenos needs to burn everything down like a madman, as the 5.1-5.3 patches have clearly shown they have plan and preparing to go their "hunting ground" which is somewhere not the Empire. And the "power" that Zodiark possess is the ability to rewrite the laws of reality and once the 8th rejoining takes place he will be strong enough to escape the moon and then he will rejoin all the shards making himself fully powered. If I was Zenos, the path to victory is pretty clear and involves Zodiark.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

...once the 8th rejoining takes place he will be strong enough to escape the moon and then he will rejoin all the shards making himself fully powered.

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Remember the alternate timeline with a successful 8th Calamity in which this did not happen.

Regardless, Zodiark on the Source is 8/14 so speaking from a pure total aether point, he is indeed the more enticing option than Hydaelyn.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

The Ascians have been working toward summoning/reviving Zodiark. They need an 8th calamity/rejoining and the WOL has stopped the from accomplishing this every time. Furthermore, I'm not sure Zenos needs to burn everything down like a madman, as the 5.1-5.3 patches have clearly shown they have plan and preparing to go their "hunting ground" which is somewhere not the Empire. And the "power" that Zodiark possess is the ability to rewrite the laws of reality and once the 8th rejoining takes place he will be strong enough to escape the moon and then he will rejoin all the shards making himself fully powered. If I was Zenos, the path to victory is pretty clear and involves Zodiark.

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Zodiark rewriting reality took the sacrifice of half the Ancients. I'm not sure that much aether even exists across the Source and shards now, and if it did we're basically just saying he'd need to win from the outset.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Remember the alternate timeline with a successful 8th Calamity in which this did not happen.

Regardless, Zodiark on the Source is 8/14 so speaking from a pure total aether point, he is indeed the more enticing option than Hydaelyn.

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But Hydaelyn is 14/14...? Not to mention her power to sunder things is, frankly, more thematically appropriate to Zenos than anything else.

With how worn out Hydaelyn is after all of the calamities, I don't think the sundered Zodiark potentially being more powerful at this point is out of the question.

Of course, with him being in a dormant, incomplete state and sealed in the moon still, it's going to take some manner of outside influence for him to do much of anything.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Remember the alternate timeline with a successful 8th Calamity in which this did not happen.

Regardless, Zodiark on the Source is 8/14 so speaking from a pure total aether point, he is indeed the more enticing option than Hydaelyn.

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But this did happen in the alternate timeline. They are living in an apocalypse so horrible their only option was to send someone back in time.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

Zodiark rewriting reality took the sacrifice of half the Ancients. I'm not sure that much aether even exists across the Source and shards now, and if it did we're basically just saying he'd need to win from the outset.

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Which I'm confident is the role Zenos is going to play in the story. And that aether does exist, as it is split across the shards, hence why the rejoinings are critical to the successful revival of Zodiark.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

But this did happen in the alternate timeline. They are living in an apocalypse so horrible their only option was to send someone back in time.

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Technically their other option was to suck it up and rebuild, like what happened in the previous eras, and which also happened after they sent the Crystal Tower to the First.

The difference here is that they had the option to send someone back in time available to them, due to the existence of the Ironworks (and its institutional knowledge of our feats against Alexander and Omega), as well as the unearthing of the Crystal Tower.

Honestly I can't imagine the Eighth Calamity was more horrible than previous Calamities (except for the half-aborted Seventh).

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Originally Posted by Kesey

But this did happen in the alternate timeline. They are living in an apocalypse so horrible their only option was to send someone back in time.

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Except the last short story from the latest round of Tales of 'x' basically had the people eventually move forward with Middy thus would the 8th Astral Era start and the 9th calamity would end that era and so on and so on, Zodiark is most likely going to be a whole being in that timeline with Emet and Elidibus still out and about.

Zodiark has the ability to rewrite the laws of the star to seek salvation. Now what would happen if the Zodiark of the alternate timeline caught wind of the whole rewrite time that Cid cooked up(bear in mind Emet would eventually know Crystal Tower is gone and exactly what the tower is capable of so just disappearing would catch his attention), who knows, but it may think Salavation can be done via that method and boop we may have a lot of different timelines going off and Zodiark may even be able to pop into our one given its power.


Time travel and a god that can rewrite the laws of the very star are a bad combo in a story XD

If the writers want Zenos to gobble up a fully powered Zodiark, not hard to see how at this point, Zenos just has to dangle the right Salvation incentive in front and being a primal wouldn't question it.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Except the last short story from the latest round of Tales of 'x' basically had the people eventually move forward with Middy thus would the 8th Astral Era start and the 9th calamity would end that era and so on and so on, Zodiark is most likely going to be a whole being in that timeline with Emet and Elidibus still out and about.

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Since Black Rose was used, it's very possible that Elidibus was beaten and destroyed in that timeline. Remember, it was only used when the Eorzean Alliance started really beating down the Empire. The main battle that would likely lead to it? The WoL vs Elidibus (in Zenos body), which is highly inferred to us winning. Emet was likely the last Ascian standing in the end, and there's no telling what he would do in those circumstances. Keep going? Or just plain give up because the Heart of Zodiark was just lost?

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Except the last short story from the latest round of Tales of 'x' basically had the people eventually move forward with Middy thus would the 8th Astral Era start and the 9th calamity would end that era and so on and so on, Zodiark is most likely going to be a whole being in that timeline with Emet and Elidibus still out and about.

Zodiark has the ability to rewrite the laws of the star to seek salvation. Now what would happen if the Zodiark of the alternate timeline caught wind of the whole rewrite time that Cid cooked up(bear in mind Emet would eventually know Crystal Tower is gone and exactly what the tower is capable of so just disappearing would catch his attention), who knows, but it may think Salavation can be done via that method and boop we may have a lot of different timelines going off and Zodiark may even be able to pop into our one given its power.


Time travel and a god that can rewrite the laws of the very star are a bad combo in a story XD

If the writers want Zenos to gobble up a fully powered Zodiark, not hard to see how at this point, Zenos just has to dangle the right Salvation incentive in front and being a primal wouldn't question it.

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I would legit be upset if they decided to involve timey-wimey/interdimensional shenanigans even more in the main story then they already have.

It's honestly just a lazy way to make virtually anything happen if you start getting alternate realities/timelines involved.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

Which I'm confident is the role Zenos is going to play in the story. And that aether does exist, as it is split across the shards, hence why the rejoinings are critical to the successful revival of Zodiark.

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But that's just the thing, we see that the Eighth Calamity in fact doesn't free Zodiark. So the Ascians would need to somehow do at least TWO spur-of-the-moment rejoinings for Zodiark to be in a position for Zenos to mantle him.

Meanwhile, for Hydaelyn, he would simply need to possess her and then absorb aether directly from the Lifestream. It's far more straightforward a process.

There's another option people aren't seeing.

Zenos has the Resonance, an artificial Echo, on top of the newer revelation that the Echo is not some unique gift from Hydaelyn and that in fact anyone could have it, it simply need to be awoken in them. Zenos clearly has the Echo too, as he speaks of the recurring dream he has of the starshower, he just needs to realise the implications of it. Not only that, but he is a direct descendent of Solus AKA Emet Selch, an unsundered Ascian. Who's to say that Zenos needs any help from Zodiark or Hydaelyn in becoming one of the most powerful beings alive?
8/14s soul + Echo + Resonance + Ascian heritage = far more powerful than WoL.

What if Hydaelyn and Zodiark remain backseaters throughout, never fought directly or even via proxy. Instead, Zenos does the unthinkable and destroys Zodiark in his weakened state, something we could never do, just to get a rise out of us and force our hand, and then we have to face off against Zenos.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I would legit be upset if they decided to involve timey-wimey/interdimensional shenanigans even more in the main story then they already have.

It's honestly just a lazy way to make virtually anything happen if you start getting alternate realities/timelines involved.

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That's the rub. Unless both Cid and Graha bite the dust, it will always be on the table. Cid is way too useful a plot device to kill off and Graha is just so darn likeable that fans would be upset if they lost him a third time. I honestly can't see how they wouldn't add more to the story at every convenient opportunity.

I would personally prefer it if, if they do go that route, it is to update the game once more with a nice time skip, or dare I say it, an undoing of history to set things right (Yes, I want to save my favorites from their fates. I'm selfish, fight me). Yoshi did say that any major changes to the games battle systems and character rigging (skeletons and clothing) would be at 7.0 at the earliest. That's right around the corner.

Final Fantasy XIV: A World Rejoined...


The rest is just musings of an over active imagination.

I think Zenos is a red herring and is just a way of showing how conniving the true antagonist of the story is. Fandaniel is just way too happy to be free to do as he pleases to be a hype man for someone who has the most boring reason of all time to gather strength. I suspect a mass sacrifice is to take place relatively soon (he is, after all setting the stage for Zenos' rampage)and is just using the chaos to gather aether for summoning Zodiark for Zenos. But is he really? That's my question. It sounds a bit lame if you ask me. All this time losing friend after friend, just for it all to come down to a magic mecha fight between Zenos piloting Zodiark and the WoL/WoD controlling Hydaelyn? Yuck.

There is something that does interest me though, and that is whatever made the sound that drove the Ascian's magicks to run wild. Zodiark was made to deal with it sure, but it seems just too enticing a mystery to not be explained further. What if instead of trying to summon Zodiark for a brat, Fandaniel summons a weakened Zodiark for whatever made the sound? Sounds about right to sacrifice the very thing used to stop it the first time (Maybe Hydaelyn too). This is a man that wants chaos. Causing a repeat of the Final Days? If I was a mad man hell bent on causing chaos in a world of magic and possibility, that would be my goal.


Or it could all just be a fight between us and Zenos to determine who is the strongest idiot. Just clubbing each other over the head till one of us falls over dead. I'll go first.

Am I the only one who thinks Zenos has long overstayed his welcome and needs to be perma-dead before 6.0 comes out? At this point I don't care where we go as long as Zenos is gone and we're onto something new. I feel like his story would have been much stronger if he never came back from the Royal Menagerie and that was it for him. Yostuyu's return from the grave was a nice surprise, but having both villains coming back after supposedly dying felt a little goofy and made it feel like our efforts weren't well rewarded. Zenos continuing to be doing Zenos things gets a little tiring for 2 expansions when he's not even that interesting of a character.

It would be nice if Zenos finally kicks the bucket in 5.5 and then we go to Garlemald to finish the fight in 6.0. 7.0 can be time for something completely different like Treasures of Aht Urghan was for FFXI. The preceding expansion, Chains of Promathia left with us killing god and finishing all the known story ties to the MSQ and ToAU sent us across the sea for a story that had almost no relation to the Crystal War and the Shadowlord and it was new and refreshing. Maybe we can have a vacation from Allagans, Ascians, and Garleans and new players could start this story directly after ARR and won't necessarily need to go through the row of expansions or pay for a skip.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Am I the only one who thinks Zenos has long overstayed his welcome and needs to be perma-dead before 6.0 comes out? At this point I don't care where we go as long as Zenos is gone and we're onto something new. I feel like his story would have been much stronger if he never came back from the Royal Menagerie and that was it for him. Yostuyu's return from the grave was a nice surprise, but having both villains coming back after supposedly dying felt a little goofy and made it feel like our efforts weren't well rewarded. Zenos continuing to be doing Zenos things gets a little tiring for 2 expansions when he's not even that interesting of a character.

It would be nice if Zenos finally kicks the bucket in 5.5 and then we go to Garlemald to finish the fight in 6.0. 7.0 can be time for something completely different like Treasures of Aht Urghan was for FFXI. The preceding expansion, Chains of Promathia left with us killing god and finishing all the known story ties to the MSQ and ToAU sent us across the sea for a story that had almost no relation to the Crystal War and the Shadowlord and it was new and refreshing. Maybe we can have a vacation from Allagans, Ascians, and Garleans and new players could start this story directly after ARR and won't necessarily need to go through the row of expansions or pay for a skip.

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He won't be dead at 6.0, it's likely we'll just kill Fandaniel, and Zenos will only die at 6.3, ending things with him, while also allowing an Author's Saving Throw.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Am I the only one who thinks Zenos has long overstayed his welcome and needs to be perma-dead before 6.0 comes out? At this point I don't care where we go as long as Zenos is gone and we're onto something new. I feel like his story would have been much stronger if he never came back from the Royal Menagerie and that was it for him. Yostuyu's return from the grave was a nice surprise, but having both villains coming back after supposedly dying felt a little goofy and made it feel like our efforts weren't well rewarded. Zenos continuing to be doing Zenos things gets a little tiring for 2 expansions when he's not even that interesting of a character.

It would be nice if Zenos finally kicks the bucket in 5.5 and then we go to Garlemald to finish the fight in 6.0. 7.0 can be time for something completely different like Treasures of Aht Urghan was for FFXI. The preceding expansion, Chains of Promathia left with us killing god and finishing all the known story ties to the MSQ and ToAU sent us across the sea for a story that had almost no relation to the Crystal War and the Shadowlord and it was new and refreshing. Maybe we can have a vacation from Allagans, Ascians, and Garleans and new players could start this story directly after ARR and won't necessarily need to go through the row of expansions or pay for a skip.

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Zenos was created to be a foil to the Warrior of Light's characterization which is probably why they kept him around after Stormblood. The likelihood that we are done with him at 5.5 is likely zero, given that 5.3 scene to point to Zenos' actions being the catalyst for the final chapter in the tale of the star. Zenos is going to be around for 6.0 if not further into 6.1+.

As far as what happens after 6.0 expansion, that's really hard to say. If the current story does concluded, I suspect they would likely not plan another multiple expansion storyline unless they knew they'd be able to conclude it properly so I suspect they would probably be more one-off. Though I still suspect they would still require the completed of the 6.0 storyline mostly to keep characterization constant but whether it would be a continuous thing after that is too hard to say without more information on what happens next.

Tbh, at this point I'd rather have Lahabrea yet again, than continue with Zenos...

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Originally Posted by Kesey

But this did happen in the alternate timeline. They are living in an apocalypse so horrible their only option was to send someone back in time.

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Zodiark did not escape from his prison, which was exactly what I was addressing. If he had, they certainly would have mentioned it, and they most likely all would be dead, offered up to restore the Ancients. The last tales from the Shadows, was the people of that timeline beginning to move into the 8th Astral Era. This would mean that the Ascians would be able to continue their plans to continue the rejoinings to eventually restore Zodiark, but he did not escape yet.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

But Hydaelyn is 14/14...? Not to mention her power to sunder things is, frankly, more thematically appropriate to Zenos than anything else.

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Working it out mathematically, Zodiark still has more raw aetherical power at 8/14 then Hydaelyn does at 14/14, assuming the Sundering was linear. Not to mention the fact that Hydaelyn herself chooses to remain aetherically deprived. Fandaniel himself says that Zodiark is Zenos's "prey" and I honestly dont see how the power to Sunder is thematically appropriate to Zenos when what he wants is the biggest Monster battle ever.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

He won't be dead at 6.0, it's likely we'll just kill Fandaniel, and Zenos will only die at 6.3, ending things with him, while also allowing an Author's Saving Throw.

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If they're sticking to the pattern, I feel like both of them are liable to be dealt with by the end of 6.0 and a new problem is going to arise in their wake.

There's going to be a huge mess to clean up in Ilsabard/Garlemald in the aftermath of their meddling as it's extremely unlikely that all of the Garleans are going unanimously agree on who their new ruler is going to be, nor will they readily accept peace with Eorzea and their other neighbors.

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Working it out mathematically, Zodiark still has more raw aetherical power at 8/14 then Hydaelyn does at 14/14, assuming the Sundering was linear. Not to mention the fact that Hydaelyn herself chooses to remain aetherically deprived.

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How...? I mean if he controls her Zenos could just absorb all the aether he wanted.

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Fandaniel himself says that Zodiark is Zenos's "prey"

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Doesn't that imply killing Zodiark? If anything that aligns Zodiark with WoL.

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and I honestly dont see how the power to Sunder is thematically appropriate to Zenos when what he wants is the biggest Monster battle ever.

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You don't see how the power to split things is appropriate to Mr. Katana?

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Originally Posted by Veloran

How...? I mean if he controls her Zenos could just absorb all the aether he wanted.


Doesn't that imply killing Zodiark? If anything that aligns Zodiark with WoL.


You don't see how the power to split things is appropriate to Mr. Katana?

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But Zenos himself says he wants relive the transcendant moment, you know when he merged with Shinryu. So if his target is Zodiark then he is looking to merge with Zodiark.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

If they're sticking to the pattern, I feel like both of them are liable to be dealt with by the end of 6.0 and a new problem is going to arise in their wake.

There's going to be a huge mess to clean up in Ilsabard/Garlemald in the aftermath of their meddling as it's extremely unlikely that all of the Garleans are going unanimously agree on who their new ruler is going to be, nor will they readily accept peace with Eorzea and their other neighbors.

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I think this is the goal, with Gaius as the likely candidate to take over the Empire. Although the Empire may galvanize under a more solid, not Ascian aligned, ruler, as Zenos and Fandaniel have seemingly dealt with the Populares and stopped the civil war off screen.