PETITION: Regarding FINAL FANTASY XIV Steam Version (Mar. 8)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SwissArmyKnife

Dear Dev team:

Please reconsider. I already consider myself to be punished for having bought the game off of Steam. Not only does it serve to be an extra layer between wanting to play the game, and logging in, but every time expansions roll around, I am never able to take advantage of the various sale prices.

Within my FC, and the greater community of allied players that comprise three other FCs with a total of over 1200 players, we always inform newcomers to the game to never buy the Steam version already. To force this onto people who made the mistake of buying the game through Steam before realizing what it entailed, feels misguided at best, and vindictive at worst.

If anything, I, and our greater community, almost universally to an individual, all feel that had we the opportunity, we would have all already purchased new, non-Steam editions of the game, just to free ourselves from having to buy all of our expansions there forever.

---

Ha ha, funny guy. But Steam FFXIV charted like 3000-4000 brand new logins in January, aside from regular / current users. You can check FFXIV user metrics on the Steam page.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Floortank

Ha ha, funny guy. But Steam FFXIV charted like 3000-4000 brand new logins in January, aside from regular / current users. You can check FFXIV user metrics on the Steam page.

---

What does that have to do with the topic at hand?

Sooo, still no news on the matter? Me and my guildies are concerned about this, specially after reading all ESO login issues with Steam. And let's be honest, starting with a new accoun ALL over again it's not a "pleasant" option... I mean, Main character (4 years) ... yep..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RedSinistra

Sooo, still no news on the matter? Me and my guildies are concerned about this, specially after reading all ESO login issues with Steam. And let's be honest, starting with a new accoun ALL over again it's not a "pleasant" option... I mean, Main character (4 years) ... yep..

---

I think for the most part they are trying to either come up with a response or ignoring the issues and hoping it goes away. If this topic drops into oblivion there is nothing for them to respond to. Our best bet for some sort of response is to keep this topic relevent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Youkulm

I think for the most part they are trying to either come up with a response or ignoring the issues and hoping it goes away. If this topic drops into oblivion there is nothing for them to respond to. Our best bet for some sort of response is to keep this topic relevent.

---

Yeah smells like stalling... and / or they did actually find a fault with the system and not budging until valve can guarantee the feature is working without a hitch. Against all my better judgement, I actually sort of trust SE that they will only implement this if its not causing any major outages. Unlike ESO we are regularly paying customers, and can choose to bring our money elsewhere.

Signed. Please lift this burden that is steam off our shoulders, and if possible give us a choice now. Whatever the cost. I would rather be a PC account, i'm a steam account, i can't restart. I just can't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lersayil

Yeah smells like stalling... and / or they did actually find a fault with the system and not budging until valve can guarantee the feature is working without a hitch. Against all my better judgement, I actually sort of trust SE that they will only implement this if its not causing any major outages. Unlike ESO we are regularly paying customers, and can choose to bring our money elsewhere.

---

If I had to guess, I'd say this is exactly the case. I don't think that SE would want to flat out lose a chunk of it's customers, which is precisely what would happen if we could no longer reliably connect to the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aramina

If I had to guess, I'd say this is exactly the case. I don't think that SE would want to flat out lose a chunk of it's customers, which is precisely what would happen if we could no longer reliably connect to the game.

---

And if for some reason that does happen, which I hope it doesn't, then I would hope that SE would finally offer us an option to add a normal PC verison to our accounts.

We can hope. :o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Youkulm

And if for some reason that does happen, which I hope it doesn't, then I would hope that SE would finally offer us an option to add a normal PC verison to our accounts.

We can hope. :o

---

Hopefully. I wouldn't be thrilled having to repurchase everything, but the only *real* deal breaker for me is having to start an entirely new account.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aramina

the only *real* deal breaker for me is having to start an entirely new account.

---

Yeah that's a question i'm still asking myself if it comes to that. Would I even bother? I don't know yet. Can't say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Youkulm

Yeah that's a question i'm still asking myself if it comes to that. Would I even bother? I don't know yet. Can't say.

---

Yeah, I don't think I could. Not so much the starting over, though losing 5 years of time and effort WOULD suck, it would be more the matter of a company choosing to make this the only option. Would leave too bad of a taste in my mouth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aramina

Yeah, I don't think I could. Not so much the starting over, though losing 5 years of time and effort WOULD suck, it would be more the matter of a company choosing to make this the only option. Would leave too bad of a taste in my mouth.

---

Starting over? Nope out of the question. Way too much time invested already. I hope SE and Valve can guarantee the system will work OR a one time offer to convert our steam keys to pc keys (sure with a fee, i dont mind at all) Yeah has been said numerous times already. But as long as there is no statement (or final statement of this) from SE, we'll be concerned.

Signed. I don’t use the steam version but I don’t like steam in general it works so poorly. So I feel for you that are stuck with it.

I'm actually happy about this change, being forced to type my password 10 times a day was pretty annoying to be honest. I had never encountered ANY issues with steam authentication servers, even when the shop or steam itself was down due to high traffic (steam sales, etc.) I was able to log in just fine into another steam linked game. Keep in mind that steam authentication, shop and game servers are on different nodes. I don't really see the point of this rant and I'm almost 100% sure your petition won't even reach the higher ups.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vesemir

I'm actually happy about this change, being forced to type my password 10 times a day was pretty annoying to be honest. I had never encountered ANY issues with steam authentication servers, even when the shop or steam itself was down due to high traffic (steam sales, etc.) I was able to log in just fine into another steam linked game. Keep in mind that steam authentication, shop and game servers are on different nodes. I don't really see the point of this rant and I'm almost 100% sure your petition won't even reach the higher ups.

---

Steam works fine with single player games. No one is debating that. FFXIV is not a single player, offline game, so you can't say oh all the other steam games I have work fine. To look to see how this may effect the game you need to look at other MMOs that use this system - like ESO. (Frankly I don't know how many other MMORPGs on Steam have actually introduced this except ESO.) If you compare how this change effected ESO players the change was a complete disaster. Some 18+ months after the change Steam users of ESO are still experiencing days of downtime, while all other ESO PC players have no issues. This is not a case of the chat system for steam, the auth server will be different so even if Steam chat is running there is no guarantee that the steam auth server for FFXIV will be running, the steam chat system runs in parallel, to FFXIV, under the new system the auth server will be in series. So it's introducing multiple points of failure to the system.

You will still have to type your password if you log in/out of the game that many times. You don't, and won't, go straight from steam to the game, you go from Steam to the launcher, to the game. Just like now, Also, what you have been able to do with other games is irrelevant since it's not the same thing that is going to be done here. What they are doing is what ESO did and that caused people not to be able to connect the game for sometimes weeks at a time.

I thought they will do it the way Smite did. They linked the game to the steam auth servers and you don't have to log in since there is no launcher anymore and the game uses steam auth credentials to authenticate login and steam client to update the game.

I may have missed this in the past 34 pages if someone has already asked the question - why would you use Steam for FFXIV (and ESO for that matter) when you have all these issues? Is (or was) there some advantage with Steam?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teraluna

I may have missed this in the past 34 pages if someone has already asked the question - why would you use Steam for FFXIV (and ESO for that matter) when you have all these issues? Is (or was) there some advantage with Steam?

---

Because people bought the game on Steam unaware of the issues or the requirement to use Steam for future expansion purchases (and now logging in).
It wasn't until pre-orders for Heavensward started that the Steam-lock became apparent and until this change goes through actually using Steam to launch the game is not required.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teraluna

I may have missed this in the past 34 pages if someone has already asked the question - why would you use Steam for FFXIV (and ESO for that matter) when you have all these issues? Is (or was) there some advantage with Steam?

---

No, but if we bought (or were gifted in my case) the original game on Steam we are permanently locked into it unless we want to abandon our characters in favor of an entirely new account. And to preemptively answer (again) just in case, no we can not add a PC version in the way PS4 can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vesemir

I thought they will do it the way Smite did. They linked the game to the steam auth servers and you don't have to log in since there is no launcher anymore and the game uses steam auth credentials to authenticate login and steam client to update the game.

---

Smite is like LoL, yes? You have a game that has matches which last 20-30 minutes? Then back to the lobby server. It's a very different structure to an MMORPG like FFXIV, RIFT, L2, WoW, and ESO. While the change may force a change in login credentials (I'll expand on this a bit later) I very much doubt that they will run their own update server. The game will almost certainly still update the way it does now, the only difference is (assuming they change accounts login like they did with ESO) that when you launch the launcher your account will logged in. You will still have to hit the green play button.
Smite has been on Steam forever and it was likely set up with all this in place. This is moving from one system to another - like ESO. And ESO 18+ months after the move shows no sign of ever having the kinks worked out of the system.

Now ESO did force this change in login. Which was problematic considering everyone had ESO/ZOS accounts with account names that weren't their steam names, to make matters worse the way ESO updates doesn't require your account credentials. (ESO doesn't update via Steam servers it updates when you launch the client - this is what I expect for FFXIV for logistical reasons.) So even though your Steam login became your ESO login you still had to type your username and password into the client when it launched. Now all this automatic login might (if implemented and there is no guarantee they are) might work better in FFXIV because they already have a similar system in place for PS4 users. There your login credentials don't technically change but your account is linked to your PS4 login. So the game logs you in as PS4 login, but if you need to use the website you login via your SE credentials.

The biggest change will be this:

You -----------------------FFXIV will become You ---------------- Steam Auth ----------------- FFXIV
This will not be a once off check with the servers like single player steam games are. This connection needs to constantly be maintained. This is how ESO works and there is no reason to expect the infrastructure will be any different for FFXIV. (For those wondering Steam Chat features currently run in parallel to this, meaning a disruption to the chat servers for steam should not be an issue.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by szalkerous

Square Enix apparently has no knowledge of how poor the Steam client is.

The majority of your users avoid the client because of this.

By making the change announced today, you are sentencing your entire userbase of gamers who are forced to remain on Steam into a nightmare of performance problems and issues. The Steam overlay built into the client alone has caused massive issues with many users.

As a result of this change, I hereby demand we be given a one-time ability to trade in our Steam keys for Square Enix direct Windows platform keys on our accounts.

---

Uh, take this up with Steam not SE, if the *STEAM CLIENT* is giving you problems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

Uh, take this up with Steam not SE, if the *STEAM CLIENT* is giving you problems.

---

We are taking it up with SE because it is SE that is choosing to change the system we have been using for the past 6 years.

Though from the delay there is hope they are reconsidering, or at least forcing Steam to make sure there won't be any issues before the change is made.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beki_Bayaqad

Uh, take this up with Steam not SE, if the *STEAM CLIENT* is giving you problems.

---

I did and they know nothing about it (this is from page 29):

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by worldofneil

I sent in a ticket to Steam just over a week ago asking if they were requiring this change and why now. They've just replied back that it's nothing to do with them (which matches up with the current subscriber agreement that says you "may be required to be running the Steam client", not will be).

https://i.imgur.com/9xTW4UE.png

The last part of the message is because I referenced how I've (occasionally) been playing this game via a USB drive for the last 5 years and if they had any idea as to how I could continue to do this if I have to launch the game via Steam.

---

Soon after this SE quietly changed the Steam annoucement to remove the part about it being because of Steam policies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by worldofneil

I did and they know nothing about it (this is from page 29):



Soon after this SE quietly changed the Steam annoucement to remove the part about it being because of Steam policies.

---

Well well well, that is certainly interesting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teraluna

I may have missed this in the past 34 pages if someone has already asked the question - why would you use Steam for FFXIV (and ESO for that matter) when you have all these issues? Is (or was) there some advantage with Steam?

---

Steam has had MMORPGs available on the platform for ages. The way MMORPGs worked was this. You bought it on Steam, then created a user account on the games/publisher/dev site which was you game acccount. Steam didn't touch the way MMORPGs functioned, that is when launching via Steam Steam then opened the launcher exe and then the game run with no input from steam at all. All MMORPGs have functioned like this on Steam for years.

Those of us who purchased by Steam back in the days of ARR didn't even know that our accounts would be restricted to buying the expacs on Steam. No other MMORPG locked you into Steam like that. When HW launched many players myself included bought from SE only to find out several weeks after pre-orders were live that Steam users had to buy from Steam. Tech support was so slow to get back to players and SE eventually had to make an announcement about it and tell all Steam users who had purchased from SE to contact support for a refund because the SE brand keys would not work on our accounts. It continued to cause issues for players because the pre-orders on Steam weren't available until 3 months after the pre-orders went live everywhere else. However buying expacs on Steam is hardly a problem, annoying at best, and confusing when the pre-orders don't go live on all platforms at the same time (something they have since fixed).

This change however functionally changes the way the game works and how we connect to the game servers. This is a big change from the way that MMORPGs have worked on Steam in the past. When they announced the change to ESO accounts it didn't bother me, I was happy to wait and see how it turned out. Having seen that now I firmly believe that this is a bad thing. Unfortunately unlike ESO where I could get my account re-converted back to a PC account (I had PC keys and Steam keys already on the same account), we do not have that luxury for FFXIV currently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by worldofneil

Soon after this SE quietly changed the Steam annoucement to remove the part about it being because of Steam policies.

---

This makes me want answers even more from SE

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NOC_NA,15202

Regarding FINAL FANTASY XIV Steam Version (Mar. 8)(Updated: Mar. 13 11:05 p.m. PDT)
As part of our fraud prevention measures, we plan to implement a restricted login check process for Steam service account users.

---

I knew it - Valve is innocent in this matter, SE is the one who don't care about us - players. And that means that this decission is completely under their control, so what i wrote before:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KotMruczyslaw

(...) BTW - this year SE updated list of prohibitet behaviours in FFXIV (full list here: http://support.na.square-enix.com/fa...6&id=5382&la=1). And what if forcing someone to play through Steam against his will "inflicts deep emotional distress" on that person? It's violation of "Other actions that are generally regarded as actions that inflict deep emotional distress on another person" in harassment section. Also this notice (https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...dbc6429f507050) should also be considered as an offensive expression. It matches "Expressions that significantly lack consideration for another person" and "Expressions that compel a playing style" - maybe it's someone's playing style to play directly without using Steam? And for certain it is typical example of Obstruction of play - "if you are not running FFXIV through Steam we won't let you play".
In one short message 3 violations of prohibitet behaviours - maybe whole Square Enix's crew should be permamently banned for that? Because even those who make the law should obey the law. If not, who would we be? Savages!

---

is in accordance with the actual state.

BTW: i don't know what kind of fraud they mean, but the only one that comes to my mind is that people with Steam version service accounts logs in directly with PC's version of client and managers and/or analysts can't see in steam how much people with Steam accounts are online. But they've got that info in their database, so i don't get it why are they making this a problem. Especially when you can run FFXIV through Steam in offline mode, so Steam still doesn't count this as "online player". Or maybe they want to force us to play with Steam in online mode?

"As part of our fraud prevention measures" - this is the most enigmatic explanation i've ever seen. And i think it's another lie (like the one in earlier version of that post), and their true motives are still unknown :(

Smite moved to the steam relatively recently, but I get your point.

Getting this little thread back up. End of april and nothing new yet? o.o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sorimachi87

Getting this little thread back up. End of april and nothing new yet? o.o

---

Nothing yet. I am hoping "no news is good news" ie it is on hold indefinitely until it can be guaranteed we won't have the same issues ESO did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sorimachi87

Getting this little thread back up. End of april and nothing new yet? o.o

---

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...9d4dcbcf2c5f4d

"*Update Mar. 13, 2019 11:05 p.m. (PDT):
Due to a confirmed bug, implementation that was tentatively scheduled for late March will now be delayed until April or after. We will let you know as soon as a date is confirmed."

Good thing I bought this on the SE Store!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nixxe

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...9d4dcbcf2c5f4d

"*Update Mar. 13, 2019 11:05 p.m. (PDT):
Due to a confirmed bug, implementation that was tentatively scheduled for late March will now be delayed until April or after. We will let you know as soon as a date is confirmed."

---

I did know that message. But thank you for posting it again :)

i hope this will be cleared up soon, would have loved to pre order shb but i am gonna wait it out to see how everything develops.

I'm also holding off on purchasing Shadowbringers until I know how this is going to be resolved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archaelil

I'm also holding off on purchasing Shadowbringers until I know how this is going to be resolved.

---

Unfortunately I preordered the Steam version of the physical CE so I'm sort of at the mercy of whatever they decide. I guess I could always buy the digital PS4 version since I have that already. If I can though I'd like to avoid that but I will be keeping my physical goodies either way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Unfortunately I preordered the Steam version of the physical CE so I'm sort of at the mercy of whatever they decide. I guess I could always buy the digital PS4 version since I have that already. If I can though I'd like to avoid that but I will be keeping my physical goodies either way.

---

Cant you cancel the steam preorder?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maneesha

Cant you cancel the steam preorder?

---

Nope, sadly. Well, at least digital version is non-refundable, there was a warning about this on store page for the game somewhere (or during the payment process, I don't remember where exactly, sorry).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Halivel

Nope, sadly. Well, at least digital version is non-refundable, there was a warning about this on store page for the game somewhere (or during the payment process, I don't remember where exactly, sorry).

---

You probably can cancel your preorder as far as the physical CE goes, they just won't be happy about it. Also, every single version of the physical CE is on a waiting list so it's not like I can switch versions without missing out. I'm fine with what I got, I'm just hoping that they don't go through with their plan. Thankfully I have a backup system I can play on if needed, it'll just cost me a bit more money.