~Poll~ Longer fights <Do you want it?>

20 seconds is way too long. I want it down to 10 seconds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

...my Paladin in full tank gear and no DD gear can kill a level 50 mob in 10 seconds or less. 20 seconds is a huge increase.

You're taking the 20s comment too seriously and literally. There are too many factors to be taken into consideration.

THe battles should be considerably longer, at least closer to cap. Perhaps not as long as XI's battles were, but much longer than they are now. Battles should be "dynamic" in the sense that they take strategy and you're constantly doing something, not "spam TP/MP moves on a large group of mobs".

Why not just let me one-shot any normal mob with any WS already?

Combat doesn't need to be any faster than it already is...

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Originally Posted by Klefth

Why not just let me one-shot any normal mob with any WS already?

Combat doesn't need to be any faster than it already is...

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Faster attacking does not equal Faster Killing. You can attack faster but the HP of the Mob could be higher than what it is now. They only made attacking faster to feel more " Action" in the game nothing more nothing less. That does not mean we kill kill the mob with 1 shot in fact Yoshi-P said you could kill 1 Mob with 5 Weaponskills ( depending on what level you are and what level the mob is, determines how fast you kill the mob).

For the record, I voted for longer fights. To be clear though, I mean that within reason. To cite an overused example, in FFXI, exp fights (the metric I assume Yoshi-P is using) take between 10s[Colibri] and 70s[Crabs]. Obviously your mileage may very, but that was the average length from my experience. That means that Yoshi-P's purported "20s fights" are actually pretty reasonable. At most, I would like to see closer to 30s fights rather than 20s.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Yet you post in here bumping it. Why not just stop posting in it?

Also, come on, 20second fights!?! YOSHI!!!!

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Why should I care if your threads get bumped? Yoshi-P probably put you on ignore a while ago. :o

I'm concerned about the effectiveness of debuffs in a system where most mobs go down like it's half-off day at the Miner's Guild. Then again since there's probably not going to be a class devoted to debuffs, it's not like people wouldn't have something to do vs. trash mobs, and then use debuffs vs. bosses.

I prefer slower-paced systems, aesthetically speaking, but the debuff thing is my only real mechanical concern.

Edit: As some people have mentioned in the thread, I feel like 'faster fights' is being exaggerated a bit. We'll have to wait and see when we have more gameplay footage / the beta gets rolled out.

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Originally Posted by TaalAzura

THe battles should be considerably longer, at least closer to cap. Perhaps not as long as XI's battles were, but much longer than they are now. Battles should be "dynamic" in the sense that they take strategy and you're constantly doing something, not "spam TP/MP moves on a large group of mobs".

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Well said! Agree!

Atleast while you are in a party, it should require longer battles, so you can have interesting gameplay/combat. Tactics!

When you are soloing i wouldent mind shorter fights! Id say 20 sec while soloing.
40 sec when in full group. Of course that would mean that when in party, you have to face higher level mobs to be efficient.

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Originally Posted by TaalAzura

THe battles should be considerably longer, at least closer to cap. Perhaps not as long as XI's battles were, but much longer than they are now. Battles should be "dynamic" in the sense that they take strategy and you're constantly doing something, not "spam TP/MP moves on a large group of mobs".

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XI's battles lasts mere seconds outside of Voidwatch and certain Abyssea NMs.

"You can beat your average monster with about 5 or 6 weapon skills, so your typical battle wraps up in around 15 or 20 seconds."

Yep, no longer fights... darn.

stop
necro
bumping
your
year
old
threads
F
F
S

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Originally Posted by fusional

stop
necro
bumping
your
year
old
threads
F
F
S

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I had value info, what, you want me to create a whole new thread? Also, you just bumped it again, why don't you stop!? YA!?! Good deal!

Honestly, the current average battle time is, like, 4 seconds. I'd say 20 is quite the improvement

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Originally Posted by Jocko

Honestly, the current average battle time is, like, 4 seconds. I'd say 20 is quite the improvement

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Which sadly from recent interviews he stated level "not so correction" will retain, so mobs a handful of levels over you will still one shot you and vice versa like 1.0.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Which sadly from recent interviews he stated level "not so correction" will retain, so mobs a handful of levels over you will still one shot you and vice versa like 1.0.

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I think that's silly, I think if you are well geared and have a full party you should be able to take them down within a few minutes of time.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

I think that's silly, I think if you are well geared and have a full party you should be able to take them down within a few minutes of time.

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And I disagree. I like it how it is, it's how almost every FF did it before.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

And I disagree. I like it how it is, it's how almost every FF did it before.

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Only if you overleveled -- Most FFs the second you got to a new area and you were slightly under leveled or at the right level battles didn't take seconds simply because of mob HP increase or turning prior bosses into regular enemies lol.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Only if you overleveled -- Most FFs the second you got to a new area and you were slightly under leveled or at the right level battles didn't take seconds simply because of mob HP increase or turning prior bosses into regular enemies lol.

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Oh, I was more responding to his comment about levels. I'm all for longer fights, I just don't think a group of level 50's should be able to knock down a (for example) level 75 mob at all no matter how long it takes. Assuming you don't leash abuse that is.
It takes away the sense of "I'm a baddie and I can kill anything" and puts you in your place in the world.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

"You can beat your average monster with about 5 or 6 weapon skills, so your typical battle wraps up in around 15 or 20 seconds."

Yep, no longer fights... darn.

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Except 15-20 seconds is almost double what it takes to kill an average level mob now and five weaponskills is more than it takes now, even for a Paladin. Try harder.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

Oh, I was more responding to his comment about levels. I'm all for longer fights, I just don't think a group of level 50's should be able to knock down a (for example) level 75 mob at all no matter how long it takes. Assuming you don't leash abuse that is.
It takes away the sense of "I'm a baddie and I can kill anything" and puts you in your place in the world.

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Ya, solo, but as a group... You shouldn't be one shotted by a level 65 mob. Like you do now.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Except 15-20 seconds is almost double what it takes to kill an average level mob now and five weaponskills is more than it takes now, even for a Paladin. Try harder.

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I will.
Everyone starts with tp, 5 people can just go up and do all their ws. BAM it's dead in 1 second.
then it goes into gather mobs, do all aoe attacks. Now it's aoe spam fest still.

I think he was talking about solo. Not with a party.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Ya, solo, but as a group... You shouldn't be one shotted by a level 65 mob. Like you do now.

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Considering all of the important mobs in Castrum Novum are 60+, and people farm those. That's clearly not a problem.

In fact most of the primals are level 60 or so, too.

I'm all for longer fights for bosses and NM but for regular mobs I want it to go fast, go from mob to mob quickly. So I like what Yoshi is doing with the combat.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

I will.
Everyone starts with tp, 5 people can just go up and do all their ws. BAM it's dead in 1 second.
then it goes into gather mobs, do all aoe attacks. Now it's aoe spam fest still.

I think he was talking about solo. Not with a party.

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well you all do remember just the natalan times or what?


do you even remember killing mobs in guildleves? solo or in small groups? seriously not.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

I will.
Everyone starts with tp, 5 people can just go up and do all their ws. BAM it's dead in 1 second.
then it goes into gather mobs, do all aoe attacks. Now it's aoe spam fest still.

I think he was talking about solo. Not with a party.

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...are you purposely trying to be stupid? (Rhetorical question)

If you, solo, can kill a mob in 5 weaponskills, you should NOT be fighting those same mobs in a group. In what world are you fighting easily soloable mobs in a party of eight? I'll tell you where. In a world where you're doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

...are you purposely trying to be stupid? (Rhetorical question)

If you, solo, can kill a mob in 5 weaponskills, you should NOT be fighting those same mobs in a group. In what world are you fighting easily soloable mobs in a party of eight? I'll tell you where. In a world where you're doing it wrong.

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Your level 10 and your killing level 16ish mobs solo.. you go and kill Level 23-25ish with a group of 8 people. :D

As THM you should be doign levels at least 2 higher. 4 preferred which legthens the fights.

Can grind non leve ones that will be harder to take down.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Ya, solo, but as a group... You shouldn't be one shotted by a level 65 mob. Like you do now.

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I've killed a level 68 Moboro (spelling?) with 3 other friends. PLD WHM BRD BLM. Kited it on pld and we killed it in like under 5 min or so. Asking for more is asking for god mode. No thank you.

And don't say kiting doesn't count because it does. I got hit every time I would provoke + flash.

well untill you are a higher BLM and you can solo IT's in 3-4 nukes.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

I will.
Everyone starts with tp, 5 people can just go up and do all their ws. BAM it's dead in 1 second.

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That's if your party is pathetic and wont fight stronger mobs.

How hard is this to understand? 15-20 seconds per normal mob is a longer battle than it takes currently. WS seem to be weakened in 2.0 and TP acts as MP. To be honest, I see this system requiring more tactics, as you wouldn't want your TP to deplete too fast during boss fights, etc. Though, I can't say for sure that the rate of TP regen would be fast or slow, but there is definitely going to be some changes here and you are going to have to keep an eye on your TP.

I hope they show a video with an equal fight (char and enemy on the same level) tomorrow during the event.

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Originally Posted by Felis

I hope they show a video with an equal fight (char and enemy on the same level) tomorrow during the event.

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Think the letter said its the same presentation from Gamescom, but might have read that wrong.

I think trying to take on over-leveled fiends needs to have a line drawn to it.

XI was pretty much ~10 levels depending on what kind of monster it was, beyond that it was hard to heal the tank before they were snapped in twain.

For grinding mobs for xp and items? no.

For bosses and other events that should be extremely engaging and highly scripted? Absolutely.

Nael (Hard) was a ~25 minute fight for us, so: pretty long. With 2 WHMs, Ifrit (Extreme) is in the ~10-12 minute range. I personally prefer ~10-15 minute fights, but for 2.0, I'm looking forward to longer dungeons and raids with multiple boss fights (more than 2) and hopefully not too much filler/trash.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I think trying to take on over-leveled fiends needs to have a line drawn to it.

XI was pretty much ~10 levels depending on what kind of monster it was, beyond that it was hard to heal the tank before they were snapped in twain.

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This right here.

As a PLD in XIV, I solo train against level 59 Amal'ja with varying degrees of difficulty. PLD + WHM can EASILY duo level 60 mobs, and a I have no doubt that a full party could probably take up to level 65. At a certain point, the damage your tank receives will outdo the amount your healer can cure.

The only reason people don't do it is because it isn't practical.

(Disclaimer: I say mobs, but this example specifically uses Amal'jaa. Different monsters have different degrees of difficulty, even if they are of identical level.)

Arg, mates!!! :mad:

Alright, listen up! I'm all for longer fights, this XiV wasn't meant for soloing content or for walks in the park!!

>>>If you have friends great! If you have a trusty link-shell, perfect!! B@lls-to-the-w@ll!!!

Easy Preys shouldn't take more than 5~10 sec to cut down(especially considering their re-spawn rates).

Even matches... come on now, it's either you or 'it'. 50/50 chance to win should take a good 40~60 sec.
If you too newb, or dumb to beat something your size/ same level, GO PLAY WoW!!(sissy)

Decent Matches: Alright soldier! This is where the exp is won and the treasure is likely to fall into you hands. Learn well and put your skills to the test. If you grind off these babies and make kills in less than 1 min, consider yourself legendary and seperate yourself from the mice!

Tough: I once fought a tough monster as a paladin(my war wasnt unlocked yet) and it was almost like fighting a even match only because I was tougher to 'it' than it expected.
>If your a mage, have a buddy! On top of being squishy, higher level monsters will hit harder and open a can-of-whoop-ass!
Using my abilities correctly in a timely manner saved my arsh. I still have some scratches and bruises but I cured myself after the win... and reaped my winnings! Hooraaaah!!

Very Tough: You'll need friends. These kinda fights could be fun with 3~4 party members and last a decent 1~2 min. If it took any longer and you pull links, go back to grinding @ Camp Dry Bone.

Incredibly tough : Oh yeah! These MOFOs are way out of your league yet can be challenged with a light party and taken down in less than 5 min (if your party is really good). If it took longer than you must not be doing something right... :P
I remember back in the days of my tour in Vanadiel, a place called the dunes, dats where I learnd all my fighting jobs and how to use patience and kick-@$$ in the same sentence! I also let the dumb-asses die before me when ever the made a bad pull or aggroed the wrong beast.
Harharhar, those were the days!


Happy hunting, happy camping! Fight with honor and let the noobs die first! :P







:cool: "Hi-hooooo, the life in Limsa is the life for mee!"

[beer]

Why make fights longer with trash? Didn't the original lead Dev saw that the fights were already too long so they decided to reduce them?