Time limit to re-enter dungeons

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

I can respect people's opinions, but when you present it as 'fact' it's an annoyance.

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The world is not subjective- both of us can't be right. And my argument holds more water than yours. It is annoying, I know the feeling.

Have a nice day.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Does that mean you're in favor of level caps now? lol

And to be more clear, I actually think that 5 minutes is a bit too fast*, but I'm gonna roll with it regardless since this is still a testing phase after all. Who knows, it may actually work out in the end, we'll just have to see how this plays out.

*While 5 minutes is probably too fast, in my opinion, a one week cooldown is just ridiculous. A reasonable reentry time limit coupled with a reasonable consumable cost (gil, quest item, beastcoins, etc) would be the best solution, as far as theorycrafting is concerned.

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Not really! But that doesn't mean we can't support one another when our opinions align! I am a stubborn, argumentative person at heart, but I have always said, I will run content in any way, shape, or form that it is put out. That doesn't mean that I am not going to express myself ^^

Tho I can understand the arguments behind the pro 5 min re-entry people, I don't think we use the same logic and global vision for this particular situation. Some people explained the negative impacts of 5 min re-entry really well, but we'll never agree.

Like it or not, any kind of games or sports need to have some kind of restrictions to make things interesting. Everything would be boring without them (just take your favorite game, hobby or sport and imagine it without restrictions or rules). This game is in fact a pretty good example of a game that lacked restrictions and challenge. I personally still like it and have faith, but the vast majority doesn't.

On the opposite side, I think the 5 min re-entry limit is good for the r30 dungeon (same thing for the 5 min mid-rank NMs), since they're designed for people to have fun on the way to 50, not the ones that reached the end and want some sense of achievement and challenge.

We'll see if this debate was worth it really soon !

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

The world is not subjective- both of us can't be right. And my argument holds more water than yours. It is annoying, I know the feeling.

Have a nice day.

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You flatter yourself greatly. Probably the only person who does. You're argument holds no water because it is based on opinion and speculation, and nothing else. You can proclaim yourself the winner as much as you want. Unfortunately, you are the only one who thinks so.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Tho I can understand the arguments behind the pro 5 min re-entry people, I don't think we use the same logic and global vision for this particular situation. Some people explained the negative impacts of 5 min re-entry really well, but we'll never agree.

Like it or not, any kind of games or sports need to have some kind of restrictions to make things interesting. Everything would be boring without them (just take your favorite game, hobby or sport and imagine it without restrictions or rules). This game is in fact a pretty good example of a game that lacked restrictions and challenge. I personally still like it and have faith, but the vast majority doesn't.

On the opposite side, I think the 5 min re-entry limit is good for the r30 dungeon (same thing for the 5 min mid-rank NMs), since they're designed for people to have fun on the way to 50, not the ones that reached the end and want some sense of achievement and challenge.

We'll see if this debate was worth it really soon !

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I agree with your point that neither side will ever agree, lol. Each side has it's points and counterpoints. What I don't like, is people presenting their opinions as 'best' for the game, or as 'fact' when it is based on speculation. I will argue against any opinion presented in this fashion, even ones on the same side as me.

With that said, I find it hard to believe that a 5 minute timer is going to be 'the death of this game.' For the people that have stuck it out this far, ANY content is good content, even if just for a day (Which I hope is the case).

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

You flatter yourself greatly. Probably the only person who does. You're argument holds no water because it is based on opinion and speculation, and nothing else. You can proclaim yourself the winner as much as you want. Unfortunately, you are the only one who thinks so.

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^^^^agreed

LOL. I find it quite amusing to see people demanding for SE to dilute content with high cooldowns in order to make it last longer. Like preventing people to play something when they want is somehow going to multiply the implemented content in game.
Want it to last longer for you? place self-imposed limits and let others play at the pace they prefer.

And please, ignore "I tell myself I'm right because I'm delusional and I think that if I repeat it enough times it'll become true" Betelgeuzah, not worth it, really.

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Originally Posted by Misha

Sorry you fail at the concept of freedom... usually these low IQ people make me laugh but you people are pathetic and hopeless. We have the freedom to do what we want in the game! This is great news for casuals and people who plays lots... if you don't wanna plow through content SUPER FAST then DON'T do it... is it hard to understand? ugggh, I usually laugh at low IQ's like this but I feel all disgusted now lmao Have fun... complaining... about... freedom!

/block

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You strike me as an intelligent person.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

You're argument holds no water because it is based on opinion and speculation, and nothing else.

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Well, if you're going to continue making statements like this without backing them up with any reasoning, I do think I will lose that duel of words.

We're both winners after all!

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And please, ignore "I tell myself I'm right because I'm delusional and I think that if I repeat it enough times it'll become true" Betelgeuzah, not worth it, really.

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Strikes me as odd why you, out of all people, would say this!

Wait.. no, it doesn't! Hahahah

Now we need a little circle of people I've embarrassed.

Like Durti quoting Abriael saying "I see what you mean, lol"... But we can't think there is anything personal about this; just a random fellow making a random statement about something completely unrelated to him.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Well, if you're going to continue making statements like this without backing them up with any reasoning, I do think I will lose that duel of words.

We're both winners after all!



Strikes me as odd why you, out of all people, would say this!

Wait.. no, it doesn't! Hahahah

Now we need a little circle of people I've embarrassed.

Like Durti quoting Abriael saying "I see what you mean, lol"... But we can't think there is anything personal about this; just a random fellow making a random statement about something completely unrelated to him.

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your posts reek of mad

This is still mid-level content. Hopefully in the future they will offer a hardcore option with currency as a pre-req. This can still be a 'casual' friendly game without kicking the hardcore players in the teeth. Just pray, PRAY.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Now we need a little circle of people I've embarrassed.

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It'll be quite a small circle, considering it'd include yourself alone.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

your posts reek of mad

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Well, that's just like, your opinion man.

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It'll be quite a small circle, considering it'd include yourself alone.

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You don't get comments like this without anything personal behind it!

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Well, if you're going to continue making statements like this without backing them up with any reasoning, I do think I will lose that duel of words.

We're both winners after all!

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I have to back-up a statement that says you are basing your arguments on speculation and opinion now? *Sigh* You say that a 36 hour timer is better for casuals because they will get less bored if they are forced to wait? Opinion.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Now we need a little circle of people I've embarrassed.

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And just to be clear here, you have definitely not embarrassed me, in any way. You're little more than words on a screen to me. I think my ego can stand up to that.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

your posts reek of mad

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This whole thread reeks of soiled diapers.

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Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly

This is still mid-level content. Hopefully in the future they will offer a hardcore option with currency as a pre-req. This can still be a 'casual' friendly game without kicking the hardcore players in the teeth. Just pray, PRAY.

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Considering that one dungeon is basically top level and it's been described as very hard to complete (we'll have to see about that, but we can only judge on what we're told until tomorrow), I'm not really sure on what you base your idea that it's "mid-level content".

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You don't get comments like this without anything personal behind it!

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As someone alreadt stated, you're flattering yourself.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Well, that's just like, your opinion man.

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I appreciate the Dude reference, but that's about it, man.

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I have to back-up a statement that says you are basing your arguments on speculation and opinion now? *Sigh* You say that a 36 hour timer is better for casuals because they will get less bored if they are forced to wait? Opinion.

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Well, now that even my posts are twisted in favor of your argument I think there's no return from here.

I definitely let myself get trolled hard. No actual arguments, just random statements without any backing up. Even got called a troll once, a great way to make a solid argument as well. Sigh.

What an amateur I am. Definitely your win this time. Didn't see it coming after all.

The level cap will be raised in the future, I do not see 50 as the absolute end-all but you do have a point. That one should have a little more than a 5 minute buffer. 15-30 minutes would be ideal but I know how requests like that go down here. :/

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Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly

The level cap will be raised in the future, I do not see 50 as the absolute end-all but you do have a point. That one should have a little more than a 5 minute buffer. 15-30 minutes would be ideal but I know how requests like that go down here. :/

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the door is that way ---->

j/k, but yeah, i kinda like the low cooldown...30mins wouldn't be bad either but anything more than an hour is not welcome here.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Well, now that even my posts are twisted in favor of your argument I think there's no return from here.

I definitely let myself get trolled hard. No actual arguments, just random statements without any backing up. Even got called a troll once, a great way to make a solid argument as well. Sigh.

What an amateur I am. Definitely your win this time. Didn't see it coming after all.

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How did I twist this in my favor? Listen, I'm not going through this entire thread and hunting down everyone single one of your posts and quoting them just to point out that they are opinionated. The fact that you can't do it for yourself speaks volumes of the level this argument has reached.

I have opinions, you have opinions. I have based mine on at least the following facts:

FACT: 5 Minute Respawn timer makes it easier to use Dungeons for exping.

FACT: 5 Minute Respawn timer means we have less time to wait to actually play in them.

FACT: It will be easier to find 4/8 Players to run dungeons on a 5 minute timer than it would be to find 4/8 players to run a dungeon on a 36 hour timer.

I'm sure there have been more facts presented in the pro 5 minute argument.

As for the con 5 minute argument, I will go as far as to post one fact:

FACT: 36 hour timer makes the content last longer.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

FACT: 5 Minute Respawn timer makes it easier to use Dungeons for exping.

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Thats not a Fact, you are assuming it.

But yes, there is maybe a chance to use Dungeons for Exping. Since we dont know, how hard they are to get through, how the "respawm" of the Mobs will work inside, please tell me how you made that a Fact?

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

FACT: 5 Minute Respawn timer means we have less time to wait to actually play in them.

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Brilliant logic there.

Fact 453: 8 Hour Respawn means i have more time to watch Porns.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

FACT: It will be easier to find 4/8 Players to run dungeons on a 5 minute timer than it would be to find 4/8 players to run a dungeon on a 36 hour timer.

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Its not a Fact, you are assuming again. IF you have a Linkshell with 50 Members all around the World where Players are on 24/7/365, how would it be hard to find 4/8 or even 8/8 People for a Dungeon?

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

FACT: 36 hour timer makes the content last longer.

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Possible.

Fact 1: NA-Forums have a lot of People with different opinions.
Fact 2: The Earth is not Flat.
Fact 3: Everyone will die at some day in the Future.

;)

This post is made even funnier by something you said earlier in this very thread:

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Well, now that even my posts are twisted in favor of your argument I think there's no return from here.

I definitely let myself get trolled hard. No actual arguments, just random statements without any backing up. Even got called a troll once, a great way to make a solid argument as well. Sigh.

What an amateur I am. Definitely your win this time. Didn't see it coming after all.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

I can see that you're in the "Idc" phase now; a way for the mind to defend itself from being confused due to being proven wrong.

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NOW I see what you were saying. Good example!

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Originally Posted by Nero

Thats not a Fact, you are assuming it.

But yes, there is maybe a chance to use Dungeons for Exping. Since we dont know, how hard they are to get through, how the "respawm" of the Mobs will work inside, please tell me how you made that a Fact?

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Maybe I used the wrong verbage. How about:

FACT: 5 minute respawn means more time for exping in dungeons.

Better?

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Originally Posted by Nero

Brilliant logic there.

Fact 453: 8 Hour Respawn means i have more time to watch Porns.

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Fact is fact my friend. The FACT is, your analogy aside, is that on a 5 minute timer, I can play a lot more dungeon than I can on a 36 hour timer.

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Originally Posted by Nero

Its not a Fact, you are assuming again. IF you have a Linkshell with 50 Members all around the World where Players are on 24/7/365, how would it be hard to find 4/8 or even 8/8 People for a Dungeon?

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Sorry, this IS fact, based on simple math. I have a better chance of finding 8 people from 100% of the community(based on a 5 minute timer) than I do of finding 8 people out of 50% of the community(The percentage is speculation, but the logic is factual. Not EVERYONE in the community will be able to run a dungeon anytime they want on a 36 hour cooldown and not EVERYONE is in a 50 member shell)

You are good at trying to pick apart other people's logic. Not so good at putting forth any of your own.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Maybe I used the wrong verbage. How about:

FACT: 5 minute respawn means more time for exping in dungeons.

Better?

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Fact is fact my friend. The FACT is, your analogy aside, is that on a 5 minute timer, I can play a lot more dungeon than I can on a 36 hour timer.

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You can play more Dungeons yes. Now you made it a Fact. ;) Its all about wording.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Sorry, this IS fact, based on simple math. I have a better chance of finding 8 people from 100% of the community(based on a 5 minute timer) than I do of finding 8 people out of 50% of the community(The percentage is speculation, but the logic is factual. Not EVERYONE in the community will be able to run a dungeon anytime they want on a 36 hour cooldown and not EVERYONE is in a 50 member shell)

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Correct, you got my Point. Its not about its harder or easier to find people to run Dungeons. Its about in which position you are playing, like if you are in a big LS or if you are not.

If you are in a big one, you shouldnt have any Problems at all to find People to run a Dungeon. No matter if 5 Min Respawn or 500 Mins.

If you are in a small Group, or a casual which want/have to do with Random People than its all made out of luck, if you find People quick or not. But of course the chance of getting people quick is lowered.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

You are good at trying to pick apart other people's logic. Not so good at putting forth any of your own.

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Maybe its because i dont pull out everything i would like to? Maybe because English is my 3rd Language? ;)

But beside that.. i didnt backup any of my Points so far, since i didnt see the Dungeons yet. I cant say if they are easy or not, i cant say if they are really useable for Exping and i also cant say if the 5 Min Timer will work out and if everyone will like it.

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Originally Posted by Nero

Maybe its because i dont pull out everything i would like to? Maybe because English is my 3rd Language? ;)

But beside that.. i didnt backup any of my Points so far, since i didnt see the Dungeons yet. I cant say if they are easy or not, i cant say if they are really useable for Exping and i also cant say if the 5 Min Timer will work out and if everyone will like it.

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I admit, maybe I was a little overly sensitive in my last post so I apologize if I was. In general, I am probably quicker to call people out because there are many in this community that are just... well... just *sigh*.

Anyway. I am happy to exchange and debate opinions. The purpose of my fact vs. opinion thread wasn't to prove myself right, but to show Betelgeuzah the difference between a factual statement and opinion, because he seems to think that his opinion = fact.

It doesn't matter how often you can enter the dungeon. The only thing that matters is the friends you make and the adventures you make together inside of these dungeons. Have fun and give it a try! :D

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Originally Posted by Zahak

It doesn't matter how often you can enter the dungeon. The only thing that matters is the friends you make and the adventures you make together inside of these dungeons. Have fun and give it a try! :D

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^ That one i really, really like.

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Originally Posted by Zahak

It doesn't matter how often you can enter the dungeon. The only thing that matters is the friends you make and the adventures you make together inside of these dungeons. Have fun and give it a try! :D

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I give that a +3

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Originally Posted by Zahak

It doesn't matter how often you can enter the dungeon. The only thing that matters is the friends you make and the adventures you make together inside of these dungeons. Have fun and give it a try! :D

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I don't think anyone here understands what fun is.

my sincerest apologies if this has already been addressed (but I waded thru to P5 and do not have time to read the inevitable bitch-fest):

In a previous thread, it was debated that even though the dungeons will be instanced, the server would not be able to handle an infinite amount of groups going in at once. This would then (in theory) cause a lock-out on people waiting to enter the instance. As far as I know, they haven't yet confirmed nor denied if this would be the case.

Does anyone know what the final word is on that yet? It would kinda suck if the new content was bottle-necked like the "new" behests are. :(

*edit: also, I didn't really play XI so if you reference it I won't know what you're talking about.

Why is everyone stating so-called "facts" when it's all just speculation?

You guys complain when there's nothing to do, and complain when there's stuff readily accessible to do. Get a grip and decide what it is you want.

End of the day, if you don't want to spam a dungeon all day out of fear of "burning out the content", here's a thought... DON'T. Do it once and move on for the day. Rocket science? Just because there (might) be a five minute cooldown doesn't mean you must re-enter after five minutes - they're just presenting the option.

On another note, who knows how long these dungeons will take to complete? 1 hour? 2-3 hours?! Regardless of being allowed to re-enter after 5 minutes, will you even have the time to do so in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Tadacho

Why is everyone stating so-called "facts" when it's all just speculation?

You guys complain when there's nothing to do, and complain when there's stuff readily accessible to do. Get a grip and decide what it is you want.

End of the day, if you don't want to spam a dungeon all day out of fear of "burning out the content", here's a thought... DON'T. Do it once and move on for the day. Rocket science? Just because there (might) be a five minute cooldown doesn't mean you must re-enter after five minutes - they're just presenting the option.

On another note, who knows how long these dungeons will take to complete? 1 hour? 2-3 hours?! Regardless of being allowed to re-enter after 5 minutes, will you even have the time to do so in the first place?

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You are allotted 1 hour per run. How long it takes you is up to your party.

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Originally Posted by Zahak

It doesn't matter how often you can enter the dungeon. The only thing that matters is the friends you make and the adventures you make together inside of these dungeons. Have fun and give it a try! :D

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While fun is one of the most important factors to maximize, the devs need to keep in mind that time limits, as they relate to other factors such as game balance and content longevity, are also important things to keep in mind.

If everyone gets bored of new content too quickly, the devs will get stuck in a neverending cycle of always having to make new stuff for players to do because it gets old so fast.

Can't please everyone. It doesn't matter that they have the choice on how often to run it, if someone can run it more often than them, it will make them feel inferior. Some people don't want options, they don't care if something makes a lot of people happy, they just want it their way and no other way. In this case, some people are going to argue to no end that by allowing players to enter the dungeon whenever they want when they don't even know how hard the dungeon actually is or how often items drop.

It's funny, many of the same people that gripe on other MMO communities are in here taking massive dumps in every thread they don't agree with, and they are making the FFXIV community look worse than the ones they complain about. lol

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

You are allotted 1 hour per run. How long it takes you is up to your party.

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Ah fair enough. Even so, my argument still stands - if you're bothered about re-entering every 5 minutes, just don't do it! Impose a 24-hour restriction on yourself... People would only bitch if SE did that anyway. They can't win.

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Originally Posted by Tadacho

Ah fair enough. Even so, my argument still stands - if you're bothered about re-entering every 5 minutes, just don't do it! Impose a 24-hour restriction on yourself... People would only bitch if SE did that anyway. They can't win.

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Seems simple right? Unfortunately, their are those in this community that will argue with you until they are blue in the face and your head is aching.

Yoshi P said the lower rank dungeons he'll be implementing are for "leveling", so that means you should be able to reenter them at a rapid rate, especially with fatigue gone you could spam it and get up in no time if you wanted.

Now lets get to the important people, because we're obviously still playing the game and we haven't gotten any content for us (talking about people 40+ maybe even 38+ if you hit the exp grind hump and you know leve linking was god for then and such)

These dungeons for higher level people are for gear and rewards, are they tied to public companies? Can i receive currency from the companies for doing them? Will it be "randomly drop to one douche in the party" system? This obviously isn't end game, because you couldn't run end game this sloppily, and with hints of level increase every 1-2 years I'll wait to see if they ever address that having someone receive and item in their loot list and take it even if they don't have the class leveled up, gives us less room to kick them before then lotting in XI did.

Anyways the drop rate of such items will be super crappy if you can enter them every five mins and that will be the price we pay.

Maybe it will be Nyzul isle without the tags!! 50% chance of nothing dropping. :P

I see a 5 min re-enter time leading to the following:

Promote Solo Play: Players get bored of easy stuff, try to solo dungeons as a challenge, with short reenter time and no enterance payment, its a win-win. Players not wiling to wait to form a proper party but just grab random bodies and zombie through it, again, 5 min recast and no payment, you fail, you all exit and try again, skilless stay skilless.

Get everything as soon as possible: Even if its a low drop rate, repeat at this rate you can pretty much get drops fast and forget about this 4-month-to-make content. Getting all classes to 50 accomplishes nothing atm, not much to do in game but look at forums for update.

Making it more convenience/easy =/= attract more players (well you might attract those that stay for couple of months, get everything, get bored and leave)