What era of design was your favorite?

This is comedy gold.

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Originally Posted by JohnConstantine

snip
Obsession with FFLogs

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IT IS THE YEAR OF OUR LORD 2015+10
And cheaters STILL think that there is a single real human being with an actual life who cares about their High score in pinball at the local Arcade.
What happened to society that we went so wrong?

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Well considering you read cleric stance so wrong that you completely missed why it was such a contentious skill I don’t think being “unbiased” means anything when you apparently don’t understand anything about the skills



Once again you don’t understand the images you link. Int and mind scaled roughly evenly with each other with levelling gear in ARR, look at the stat distribution on any gear above ilvl 100

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lol where is your image linked to prove that stats were 90% reduced at lvl 50 tome gear? Oh yeah, it doesn't exist.. that's why. but okay, mister, crying over something that will never return. continue to wallow in your self-inflicted misery.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

lol where is your image linked to prove that stats were 90% reduced at lvl 50 tome gear? Oh yeah, it doesn't exist.. that's why. but okay, mister, crying over something that will never return. continue to wallow in your self-inflicted misery.

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Says the one who is trying to vibe the effects of skills they don’t understand as justification for why the newer system is better

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Says the one who is trying to vibe the effects of skills they don’t understand as justification for why the newer system is better

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Your arguments and how you conduct a debate are so boring, predictable, and intellectually dishonest that it's not even funny at this point.

Even if, let's say, it was 90% healing reduction as you say, it didn't matter. You still had a secondary healer who could mitigate or take over for healing. In addition, you could either swift cast or you could hard cast the spell. Also, you cannot attribute the entire complexity of a role/class to a single spell. Give me a break. Everything else was absolute garbage-level design, and most likely why it got changed.

Just pure nonsense, jankiness in the kits. if you enjoy that, you do you but I am glad that was changed.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Your arguments and how you conduct a debate are so boring, predictable, and intellectually dishonest that it's not even funny at this point.

Even if, let's say, it was 90% healing reduction as you say, it didn't matter. You still had a secondary healer who could mitigate or take over for healing. In addition, you could either swift cast or you could hard cast the spell. Also, you cannot attribute the entire complexity of a role/class to a single spell. Give me a break. Everything else was absolute garbage-level design, and most likely why it got changed.

Just pure nonsense, jankiness in the kits. if you enjoy that, you do you but I am glad that was changed.

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1) the other healer is juggling cleric stance as well. Unless it’s single healer content. Swiftcast changes absolutely nothing which let me remind you wasn’t on every class by default
2) I didn’t attribute complexity to cleric stance, I clarified about 5 seperate skills you all claimed were jank because you misunderstood all 5 of them to such a massive degree that it’s no wonder you though they were Jank
3) you can’t be glad or annoyed at anything because you don’t understand the skills. You are glad that what you IMAGINE the skills were is gone, but given you’ve misunderstood literally every skill you’ve bought up your imagination is so wrong that you’d probably end up liking the old skills

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Your arguments and how you conduct a debate are so boring, predictable, and intellectually dishonest that it's not even funny at this point.

Even if, let's say, it was 90% healing reduction as you say, it didn't matter. You still had a secondary healer who could mitigate or take over for healing. In addition, you could either swift cast or you could hard cast the spell. Also, you cannot attribute the entire complexity of a role/class to a single spell. Give me a break. Everything else was absolute garbage-level design, and most likely why it got changed.

Just pure nonsense, jankiness in the kits. if you enjoy that, you do you but I am glad that was changed.

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Why would swift or hard cast be relevant in this? Do you mean healer on cleric stance could just spam heals? I mean, sure they could, but that's not optimal, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

If damage stance had locked you out of healing spells and had any real impact, I would agree with you, but guess what.. the only downside was you were healing 20% less. Much wow..

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Cleric Stance meant your heals were completely useless and didn't heal anything meaningful at all. Exactly like Summoner's Physick is now.

If you entered Cleric Stance, you had to wait a GCD to be able to exit it. In an era of mostly GCD healing (we didn't have many ability heals), waiting a GCD could mean that someone dies because 2.5 seconds is almost the time it takes a boss to cast and you needed another 2.5 to cast your heal.

So you had to anticipate properly. In that way, you had to know where you could risk doing damage and where you could not in advance. All these aspects of jobs were extra steps, but those extra steps were factored into the raid design and are why the raids will feel simpler now.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

If you entered Cleric Stance, you had to wait a GCD to be able to exit it..

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This is only half true, you were always able to just click the Cleric Stance buff to turn it off just like Echo or Tank Stance, you were prevented from turning off Cleric Stance Via the ability itself but the game engine did in fact support the instant removal of Cleric stance, there was even a macro that people could use to do it for them if they were using a controller or whatever

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

ermm? excuse you? what 90% reduction? If our current stats were the thing back then.. yes.. but... yeah no..
https://imgur.com/Cax7rJt

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It's nice to find old screens or videos but it would be better to actually understand what's happening on them. + ARR gear with multiple main attributes on them, and that whm also has an... interesting gear set to say the least.
This screen is taken from a WHM that reallocated the 30% ish of their attribute points that were possible to allocate to any attribute they want (it was a dumb system because nothing in the game supported this as a design choice, a leftover from 1.0 more likely, before you start dropping a tantrum about it). In this case they reallocated those into multiples, and INT is part of those.

- At lvl50 with a NORMAL allocation where the player puts all into the main healer stat (MND), it is easy enough to check today as well with Physick (SMN vs SCH): healing with everything in INT roughly heals for half of what everything in MND does, so at lvl50 cleric more or less halved healing power (before the additional 20% from the ability).
- At lvl60 following the same principle: healing in cleric would heal 5 times less, so dropping healing by 80% compared to out of cleric (before the additional 20% of the ability).

Due to how the main attribute constantly expands while the other barely do (they just follow the hidden level coefficient modifier to stay in check), naturally the gap increases as expansions go, and HW was no exception, making Cleric more punishing than it was in ARR, going from a loss of 60% in ARR to 85% in HW for endgame healing under cleric.
I also retested those at early expansion stats, so you can assume that during Creator it was probably closer to 90%.