Chaotic is midcore, in case you were wondering

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Yes. That's literally the whole reason there are options to do relic steps outside of Bozja.

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You're conflating someone not enjoying that style of content with it being too hardcore. I know a lot of people who won't touch crafting because it's too tedious and grindy for them. That doesn't make crafting midcore content.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Yes. That's literally the whole reason there are options to do relic steps outside of Bozja.

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They explicitly stated in the live letter that this was an option for people who did not want to grind in Bozja. Because Bozja itself was an insane grind, and they knew people would not want to do that after Eureka.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

You're conflating someone not enjoying that style of content with it being too hardcore. I know a lot of people who won't touch crafting because it's too tedious and grindy for them. That doesn't make crafting midcore content.

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It either does mean crafting is midcore, or it means there's a tier of player below casual.

Y'all are basing your opinion of savage being midcore on how easy you personally think it is, but rejecting the opinions and experiences of others. So midcore is going to continue to mean nothing and the definition is going to continue to vary depending on who you ask because it's just a personal metric.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

it means there's a tier of player below casual.

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I call this tier "the average official forum poster"

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If I've learned anything, it's that it's still hard to satisfy every playstyle, but Nakagawa wanted to make sure that everyone still feels heard.

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I certainly still don't.:(

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

going back and changing the fight for it to fit in the scope of the difficulty they intended or initially set out for it to be isn't really the best approach seeing as 88K people have cleared.

They will probably just use that going forward to inform the design choices of future Chaotic raids. It's probably safe to say that this is the 'hardest' it will be for the next lot of iterations.

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This is the only thing I can think of, yeah, that they're unwilling to annoy some subset of players who tie some aspect of their self-worth to their video game accomplishments.

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Originally Posted by TemporalFruitsAndVeggies

This is the only thing I can think of, yeah, that they're unwilling to annoy some subset of players who tie some aspect of their self-worth to their video game accomplishments.

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You're projecting hard here. I hate the Chaotic fight's design (merely look at my post history and you will see proof of this) but I think that nerfing/changing it would be a terrible idea.
It is not fair to irreversibly change a piece of content that a group of people enjoys, to satisfy another group of people. All this does is reduce the enjoyment of that group for the chance of making another group happy.

It has nothing to do with some sort of "self worth" argument.

I never liked casual/midcore/hardcore labels for all those reasons. They can conflate difficulty, grind amount, hours spent, and many things together. So I'll just use tiers instead:

Tier 0: MSQ, society quests, fates, hunt trains, dungeons, alliance raids, NM raids.
Tier 1: CLL/Dalriada, BA.
Tier 2: Extremes.
Tier 3: Savage, Criterion, Chaotic.
Tier 4: Ultimates, Criterion Savage, Necromancer.

I deliberately added alliance raids and NM raids into Tier 0, because that's where they do belong even after Jeuno which isn't better than Myths of the Realm. If it was about older ones like Nier, Ivalice, Mhach (except Void Ark for which Yoshida actually apologized, for those who do remember), then I'd put them into Tier 1.
You'll notice there is nothing modern or current in Tier 1 and hasn't been for ages.
For those who do ask how I can put NM raids with society quests, I'll reply that you can literally afk inside and still clear, they only belong barely in T1 at release before first clears.

Feel free to disagree, but that's mostly how I see content difficulty/commitment.

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

You're projecting hard here. I hate the Chaotic fight's design (merely look at my post history and you will see proof of this) but I think that nerfing/changing it would be a terrible idea.
It is not fair to irreversibly change a piece of content that a group of people enjoys, to satisfy another group of people. All this does is reduce the enjoyment of that group for the chance of making another group happy.

It has nothing to do with some sort of "self worth" argument.

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Nah, I've seen you around the forum a bunch, and generally agree with most things you say.

I was merely inferring from your statement that 80-something thousand people had already cleared that SE wouldn't want to offend those people by making the fight easier; the only reason that would offend anyone would be if they tied part of their self-worth to the accomplishment of clearing. I'm either misunderstanding your implication or possibly drawing the wrong conclusion here. If so, I guess I can understand why you'd think I was projecting, but I can assure you the scant few accomplishments I have in the game are entirely meaningless to me. I like the forums more than the game itself, honestly.

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Originally Posted by TemporalFruitsAndVeggies

Nah, I've seen you around the forum a bunch, and generally agree with most things you say.

I was merely inferring from your statement that 80-something thousand people had already cleared that SE wouldn't want to offend those people by making the fight easier; the only reason that would offend anyone would be if they tied part of their self-worth to the accomplishment of clearing. I'm either misunderstanding your implication or possibly drawing the wrong conclusion here. If so, I guess I can understand why you'd think I was projecting, but I can assure you the scant few accomplishments I have in the game are entirely meaningless to me. I like the forums more than the game itself, honestly.

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I'll clarify, and I felt it was important to specify that I dislike the content because I am defending its current state.

There are many people who enjoy the current Chaotic as it is. It is not fair to those people to change it, because it could turn it into something they may no longer enjoy. That is not fair to those players. It has nothing to do with self-worth in clearing, but about the fact you are changing something that people are currently enjoying into something that they may not.