FFXIV population decline continues

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

The game "went viral" in 2021. It seems silly to try to attribute changes in player behaviour in late 2024 to that.

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I am not attributing changes in player behaviour in "late 2024" to that.

I am saying that you can't compare 2024/2025 to 2021/2022 because the circumstances are different ie. the game hasn't been viral for ages, so obviously the number will be lower this time. This is a given.

Even if there are less people playing right now, they may return in 7.2 etc. It's nothing really to worry about because the game was fine in Heavensward/Stormblood with a quarter to half the population it's had.

I say this several times every expansion and I’ll say it once again during this one (despite having said it before lol):

This is just what happens with FFXIV. The devs are happy with the playerbase having such a significant ebb and flow. Pretty much every expansion has had a period of activity (usually release) then the playerbase begins to drop off following that moment then goes back up again new expansion.

Doesn’t stop the ‘FFXIV is dead’ threads popping up, but considering it’s literally survived this 5 times before in the past (at least once per expac), I’m pretty sure the game will survive. Whether it deserves to or not lol

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

We recently established with multiple statistics that 30% of people clear Savage (the entire tier) and the figure is more like 50% in JP. Still a minority overall, but not insignificant, and doesn't count those who merely clear floor 1 or 2.

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Well, I wish those statistic had the absolute numbers for the same period in 6.0/6.1. My question is "how, in absolute numbers, were the clear rates of Pandemonium first tier during 6.1?". If they were lower or in the same range for Normal, that's the right reading of those stats. On the other hand, if the absolute numbers of pandemonium savage clearance are in the same range as Arcadion Savage, and normal fell down by a significant number, the reading might be slightly different : less people engaged with the the normal raid, and being not more than previously, they represent a higher percentage of the the people clearing normal. In other word, it this high clearance rate might rather be a indication of the bad general health of the game than the indication of more people trying to complete Savage. I can also be a little bit of both. If you don't compare them to previous similar statistics, those latest statistic might (emphasis on the possibility, I'm not trying to say "that's the the explanation, I'm totally fine with the "more people went into savage") draw an incomplete picture of the situation. I'm sure it's pretty easy to verify that if you speak japanese and search through LuckyBancho older post, but I don't speak japanese, I wouldn't even know if I'm comparing the right charts.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I am not attributing changes in player behaviour in "late 2024" to that.

I am saying that you can't compare 2024/2025 to 2021/2022 because the circumstances are different ie. the game hasn't been viral for ages, so obviously the number will be lower this time. This is a given.

Even if there are less people playing right now, they may return in 7.2 etc. It's nothing really to worry about because the game was fine in Heavensward/Stormblood with a quarter to half the population it's had.

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You absolutely can compare 2024/25 to 2021/22 because the game started with more players in 2024 than it had in 2021.

This isn't a case of the game going viral for a short time a few years ago and then things dying down. It's a case of the game achieving its peak long after going viral and then falling off immediately due to an awful expansion launch. Trying to deny this is pure cope.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

Typically when someone disagrees with a provided description, they provide their own and why they think so. Y'know, basic constructive conversation. But seeing as how you consider "Lol. Lmao even." a constructive contribution, I'm not surprised you react this way.

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I'm sorry, but when someone hops in here and effectively says, "Don't mess with us casual players, Jack, because we built this game from the ground up and, if you piss us off, we can just as easily destroy it," apropos of nothing and you unironically follow up with, "Well, actually, she has some good points," how would you prefer I react to that?

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

It was still a case of Square-Enix "future-proofing" Final Fantasy 11 to make it playable alone regardless of whether the game was abandoned by too many people or having two remaining populations that didn't want to play together (old versus new in this case). Now we have Final Fantasy 14, being left behind for other games, and casual and hardcores divided more than ever. It's the same abandonment and population split, it's just coming through in a different (and more negative) way, heralded by an especially divisive expansion.

Another thing is that there technically IS "another MMO" in Square-Enix's pipeline to further account for possibly sweeping changes to Final Fantasy 14, and that's... Final Fantasy 14, Mobile Edition. Given SE's track record as a whole, or how they almost did the "abandon PC version, get everyone to the mobile version" for FF11, there's some churning in the water here that shouldn't be ignored about the future of the PC version of FF14, or more specifically, how they're going to "proof" it too.

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I'm kind of confused as to where you're going with this.

Yes, trusts (and other systems) were introduced in FFXI to make it easier for new players to get into the game and play through the story content solo due to the shift in the ecosystem making it very difficult for new players to catch up otherwise. The equivalent system in FFXIV is already there - it's duty support. They just need to add support for some of the remaining content that isn't covered by it and then it's done.

There were no plans to shut down the PC version of FFXI in favour of the mobile version. Like the FFXIV mobile game, it was outsourced to a 3rd party and was likely just intended to be an additional revenue stream for SE without them having to put a great deal of work into it. It was cancelled fairly early on in development.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

It was still a case of Square-Enix "future-proofing" Final Fantasy 11 to make it playable alone

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Seemed pretty obvious to me that it would be to account for people moving to FF14.

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they almost did the "abandon PC version, get everyone to the mobile version" for FF11, there's some churning in the water here that shouldn't be ignored about the future of the PC version of FF14, or more specifically, how they're going to "proof" it too.

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They made it very clear that the mobile version is "for people who want to play it but can't because they only play mobile games, or only have time for mobile games" and judging from comments I've seen on YouTube, mobile-only gamers are excited about it. They aren't intending to push PC/Playstation/Xbox players to use a mobile suddenly. That would make no sense.

It's also an entirely separate version of the game, made by an entirely separate company, so changes to the main game are not necessary to make the mobile version function. The reason it's entirely separate is because they needed it to have changes so that it can be played in even shorter bursts of time than the main game.

Only good things are likely to come from the mobile version, because the company making it are doing the same things but better. So SE will just learn from them and improve the main game.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Nearly every Final Fantasy game on Steam, From 1 to 11, has features ranging from quick level gain to virtually infinite gil as a way to, I assume, let players enjoy the story without having to fuss with the gameplay too much if they so choose.

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Realistically, PC players would use simple hacks to achieve that in single player games if SE didn't add it.

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Hell, the idea that you "steal" the mob packs between bosses and then they get buffed up is... kinda interesting to think about actually.

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Realistically, Beastmaster will probably just have a "beast book" then we go and learn beasts like we learn spells and they will probably have a generic ST and AoE attack. SE doesn't make anything that complicated anymore. If they do anything more than that, it'll be a welcome surprise.

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Originally Posted by NamiRocket

I'm sorry, but when someone hops in here and effectively says, "Don't mess with us casual players, Jack, because we built this game from the ground up and, if you piss us off, we can just as easily destroy it," apropos of nothing and you unironically follow up with, "Well, actually, she has some good points," how would you prefer I react to that?

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Their delivery was out of line but the premise is objectively true, no? Not like the casual playerbase is under one big united umbrella to actually make something like that happen, but for every raider there's at least a dozen casuals. How I expect is if you're going to try to refute me at least it in good faith and not just go "facepalm moment lmao"

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I am saying that you can't compare 2024/2025 to 2021/2022 because the circumstances are different ie. the game hasn't been viral for ages, so obviously the number will be lower this time. This is a given.

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You're talking about the game 'going viral' like a wizard did it. It went viral because Shadowbringers was so good everyone playing the game couldn't stop talking about how good it was. If Dawntrail had been better the population would likely be higher than it is now.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

the excitement and interest of current players is part of what draws in new players. If everyone playing the game is just talking about all the problems then fewer new players are going to be drawn in, and the overall population will decline.

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:p

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

My point is that Square-Enix may expand FF14 Trusts beyond just those dungeons if they feel like the game has hit FF11 levels of a playerbase that can't get content to pop reliably, especially when it's not just dungeons that can cause a player to be halted in the MSQ but currently no Trials and Crystal Tower doesn't have NPC options either. As someone from Maduin, I can assure you it was never the difficulty of CT and Susano that stopped me cold for days, but rather the fact that there weren't enough people on Dynamis doing it, and even when I traveled to Aether/Primal, it still took awhile because I play later than most. Perhaps that's ONLY an issue for Dynamis (and a personal one with regards to schedule), but considering its the data center they try to funnel new players into and it's been an issue here for over two years now... well, it becomes difficult to just tell people to data center travel instead if Aether/Primal/Crystal start to clear out too.

I've heard both that they did and did not plan to shut down the PC version of FF11 if the mobile version came about, so admittedly it's not something I was ever really certain about, and the subsequent cancellation of the mobile version made it moot anyway. But it was still an example of Square-Enix possibly not wanting to put all their eggs into the PC version, and if not for the decision to make FF14 an MMO and the "intended successor", we might very well have two different versions of FF11 right now.

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I think they probably will expand duty support to include all of the trials. AFAIK the plan is for full MSQ coverage.

FFXIV was already in Heavensward by the time the mobile version of FFXI was announced. It wasn't cancelled until 2018. It being cancelled wasn't really anything to do with XIV, it was just SE being SE and managing projects poorly.