Yes. We experienced it at Vanaspati and while we got it under control, we're working under the constant threat that there will be more and more outbreaks if we don't get it under control. We experience another one and hear that more are rumbling away elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazhar
I do agree that there wasn't enough high stakes maintained – at very least we should have seen the burning skies increasingly spread to Sharlayan and any other zones able to display it. (The complete lack of it makes me wonder whether the zones need special programming to support the unique weather, because it seems strange to not have done it to any older zones for what seems like a low-effort tension builder.)
But still, it established that background sense of urgency of what was in store for the planet if we didn't succeed.
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05-09-2023, 01:25 AMIscah
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05-09-2023, 01:39 AMRyuDragnierI had brought it up a while back, but I'm pretty sure the reason why the older zones never got it is not only because of spaghetti coded weather stuff, but also because the WoL has essentially fixed a lot of things that would have caused the despair in the previous regions. If you consider all previous sidequests to 6.0 canonically already done, we've done so much that it'd have required something super big to cause the doomsday despair weather in the old zones. A lot of the roles quests from 6.0 are us dealing with that remaining bit that could cause the despair, or at least alleviating it enough to buy time to take out Endsinger before things go out of control.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
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05-09-2023, 01:55 AMIscahTo some degree, yes, but we haven't solved every problem, and the whole prospect of the Final Days is introducing its own new type of stress.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuDragnier
Also, it's not purely people's despair that triggers the phenomenon, but we've been told that it will increasingly spread.
In a different production of a similar plotline, it could be quite powerful to just gradually have one or two zones showing the effects of it, then spreading to adjacent zones until large patches of the world are affected.
Perhaps if it started with just the atmospheric effects and not the transformations, the writers would have been more inclined to show that first stage setting in. -
05-09-2023, 03:55 AMTheMightyMolluskThis kinda feels like a leftover problem from EW being condensed from two expansions into one. Imagine Zodiark being an X.3 trial boss, like Nidhogg at the Final Steps of Faith. We spent a bit of time getting our feet back on the ground and dealing with smaller-scale problems (after Nidhogg, we reunited with Yda and Papalymo and saw the beginnings of the Griffon's rebellion) before getting thrown back into the main conflict to build up the next expansion. In that context, the scenes with the loporrits would've been a cooldown patch before the Final Days hit full-force.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazhar
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05-09-2023, 04:08 AMKazharYes ironically the downtime moments wouldn't have be so unbearable if they told that story into multiple installments. Part of what makes the moon arc so jarring is that we went from 0 to 100 in a matter of a single hour with Zodiark, then it's filler time already.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk
EW is a strange case of being both rushed and extremely slow at the same time. -
05-09-2023, 04:13 AMEisiThis would have been so glorious. Would have allowed them to introduce zones that are completely lost to the final days too.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk
And yeah the Loporrits (which I really liked but they unfortunately became stale after their introduction - the puddingway joke for example was amazing the first time around and just never reached even a quarter of that level again, puddingway zombie should have been cut) make a lot of sense as patch content.
Although I would have had Zodiark as the final boss of 6.0 - Anima being the level 89 boss. And then the first blasphemy as the .3 boss.
With Hermes being the first endwalker trial boss at 93, Hydaelyn the penultimate trial and Endsinger being the final trial at Level 100 which as a little bonus would feel just right in terms of finality. -
05-09-2023, 08:21 AMRenathrasSo basically:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisi
"WHAT IS THIS? A GAME?! YOU EXPECT TO BE HAPPY!?? UNLESS YOU'RE EDGY AND MISERABLE AND EVERYONE IS DYING - ESPECIALLY THAT ONE CHARACTER EVERYONE LOVES - IT SUCKS AND I HATE IT AND YOU SHOULD HATE IT TOO!!!!!!"
That's what I'm getting out of this post.
I absolutely agree the death fakes in Ultima were stupid - especially Estinian's, since it DID open the path but was kinda just "yeah, I'll die so you can all go on, that seems to be the theme", as well as Urianger going with Y'Shtola just because. Other games have done this "your party members have to split from you and might suffer" so much better with things like having to leave a party member behind in each room of a hard dungeon to hold a switch or something. There was zero reason to try to make us thing people were all dead. Had it just been Thancred, I'd have been worried, but after Estinian and especially after Y'Shtola and Urianger, I realized they weren't going to kill EVERYONE off, so at that point, it just became edgy for the sake of edgy, which is dumb as people like me who don't do edgy get annoyed and even people who like edge see through it and get annoyed.
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But this idea people have to be dying left in right in a "Rated M for Mature" blood in the snow and other people breaking from the sorrow way? I'm sorry, but no. That's stupid when it happens in movies (I HATE movies where they kill everyone off just to get cheep hearstring tugs), it's dumb in games, especially general audience games like this that are trying to give a message of hope anyway, and it almost never fits the story. It's VERY rare for a story to pull it off well, and then only sparingly.
No, we don't need more of that.
When I think of being heroic, I DON'T think of being held down powerless while my allies are slaughtered. In fact, the most annoying thing to me in games is when they gimp/hamstring with a slowwalk (you know the latest trend - Noctis on the frozen train in FFXV or Mickey in the Remind DLC of KH3 immediately spring to mind - despite how your character, no matter how tired or low on HP IN THE ENTIRE REST OF THE GAME OR FRANCHISE never has to slow down...Noctis gets kind of a pass until you realize the infinite sprint trick) and so on to prevent me acting ANNOYS me.
To me, heroic is Chrono WAAAY back in Chrono Trigger, when Marle is swept into the teleporter, grabbing her pendant and stepping onto the pad, braving a total unknown to save a friend. THAT is heroic, not being held down and being forced to watch someone more powerful than you kill everyone you care about. Moreover, the latter is just stupid:
If he's that powerful, then there'd be no reason to continue the quest since you would obviously have no hope of ever defeating him if you couldn't even stand up then.
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EDIT:
While I agree with a lot of this - SPECIFICALLY the moon I disagree with. I feel like it went on too long (the trying on clothes and stuff felt like filler), but after Zodiark and the big reveal, I had a real "Oh god...uh...now what?" moment that reminded me of the look on the WoL's face in the 2.0 cinematic when Bahamut gets out and then starts destroying things, IS sealed...but then breaks the seal and everyone's like "Uhhh...well...crapbaskets."Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazhar
The Lopporit bit on the moon did a good job on shifting the focus to "Okay, things seem bad, but maybe there's a way...", which a story NEEDS otherwise, it's just "Okay, I guess we give up now?" time.
To me, the biggest issues in the story were (a) how LONG that went on (as I said just above) and (b) Labyrinthos filler when you get back from Elpis. THAT one is what really destroyed the pacing to me. Urianger's reunion was definitely worth it, and frankly caught me completely by surprised (I was girding for the cliche "angry parents that yell a bunch but come around eventually", but then she goes total mom on Urianger and I was NOT prepared for that - I think that's why the scene hit me so hard and a lot of other people, too, because of how it not only subverted expectations, but did so in the most heart wrenching, touching way possible. Consequently proving something doesn't need to be edgy to tug at the heartstrings and have people emotionally invested...)
...but then we follow that with more goofing around under the obvious filler argument of "we have to wait for the engines to be finished", a very similar excuse used to talk to Crystal Exarch in ShB after getting to the top of the lift in Kholusia and working on the giant Talos. While it makes sense in a lore perspective, they could have put the "stay a night at the inn and talk to an ally" thing THERE instead to function as that narrative timeskip. It just felt like stupid busywork before we could continue the story, and it destroyed the pacing since this was coming off of the narrative A-Bomb that was "Venat's long and lonely walk" superimposed with the WoL's past adventures. There's this sense of urgency to move onto the final zone and finish the fight that is completely broken by mindless goofing around at a point in the story that UNLIKE Zodiark's death didn't need a breather moment. Moreover, much of Ultima Thul WAS a breather moment/filler, but it was FAR MORE INTERESTING as we learned about the history of two long-standing lore issues - the Dragons and the Omicrons - and were introduced to a new and interesting people, the Ea. It had a feel much like the latter part of Tempest where you get to Amoraut and get these massive lore dumps that are so interesting and informative of long-standing story questions that it makes up for the fact you SHOULD be rushing to the end before you "run out of time" and become a Light Warden.
That is, it breaks the pace, but in a way that's so interesting and story/lore revealing, it's acceptable. Something that doing random chores for random people in Labyrinthos didn't do. And while the latter was trying to, I think, paint a picture of "remember the common people who you can help in small ways and are fighting for", the problem with this is it's in the middle of "Oh, and there's a world ending doom that WILL KILL THEM ALL, but surely you have time to sit and listen to some of their personal problems for a FEW minutes, right?"
Makes me think of that scene in DBZ Abridged where Trunks returns to the future, hears about where the androids are attacking, but decides to finish his tea before going to fight them, only to arrive 5 seconds after the killed the civilian guy and saying "I...probably could have put that tea in a thermos and saved it for later..." That is, a situation where time is of the essence and the very person we're helping tie their shoe will die if we don't deal with the rather larger problem than their shoelace being untied.
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Anyway, yeah, I think the Laby bit after Elpis was honestly the only part in the whole story (exception for Urianger's reunion, which was ABSOLUTELY good to have in the story/game) that I genuinely did NOT like. I didn't like the fake deaths in Ultima Thul (were they REALLY at all necessary? No.), but the only part I really think should have been cut was that "chores" part of Laby.
And yes, I did feel strongly about that. -
05-09-2023, 09:04 AMSannaR
Part of the Labyrinthos section is waiting for the special ore to be delivered so that they then can work on the engine. Most people we help are those working on things for the Ragnarok who are needing to have their minds put at ease as there is no time for a test flight. Some of the systems they don't know if they'll work the way they're supposed to. Or they need an able body that can quickly go get them something so they can finish the last touches for their work on the Ragnarok. Many are just worried that their calculations via slide rule or whatever aren't correct and just need the word from someone who's had to make those same calculations.
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05-09-2023, 09:49 AMVeyaAkemiI am just imagining Fandaniel being overly theatrical while telling a story, Lahabrea laughing the entire time for absolutely no reason, Elidibus just happy to be around, and Emet smiling the entire time but silently continuously formulating plans to kill each one of them as a coping mechanism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple_Barghest
Gaia was invited, but she already had plans with Ryne. -
05-09-2023, 10:04 AMhagareobviously notQuote:
Originally Posted by Eisi