Can we point out to how bad it is that SE bends the knee to chan brigades?

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

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What did SE achieve by banning Bagelgoose in the manner they did? The answer is pretty clearly nothing. His and Hiroro's bans were always going to cause drama and the resulting fallout was always going to be the biggest advertisement for addon usage ever. SE are not stupid, this wasn't some decision taken by the top brass to make a show of some streamers as there are a multitude of ways this could have been done without causing anything like the same level of fallout in the community.

This wasn't even a ban wave as such, as far as I'm aware it was specifically two streamers. Pyromancer was seemingly targeted as well but it seems to have fallen short there.

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As I said I don't know. I don't know their ban history either. However I do know of certain things.

Bagelgoose looks like he was using by the screenshots - Cactbot. Considering the DEATH REPORT is in the screenshot - I can see why they now call it cheating. Bit more than just an ACT parser.

Pyromancer may have been lucky by deleting his videos so by the time a GM may have had the time to gather the evidence it was taken down.

The other streamer used a different launcher. I actually UNDERSTAND the reasons why you would want to use a different launcher, but at the same time - the default launcher is one of few advertisement boards that SE has. So Seeing that launcher and not knowing specifically what it does - as well as airing it on screen is a really bad idea.

So maybe you're right people haven't been banned for an ACT parse, but at least 2 out of 3 of those cases was more than just ACT numbers.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Then explain why they don't go after all the various obvious fate, eureka, crafting, housing etc etc bots that have been reported over the years?

Spoiler: It's likely because they weren't reported in the sort of numbers that 5ch are throwing.

It raises two issues here:

A) And this is a big one. A 'crime' should be handled accordingly to it's severity. Not by how many people are shouting and screaming for 'justice'.

B)The punishment seems pretty excessive, not only to the streamer themselves, but the rest of their DSR team that's now basically had their progression reset or put on pause for 10 days and even the community that's following their progress.

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because proving a character is a bot requires giving access to your computer which involves privacy laws and so on I imagine and that is something SE is not willing to go that way vs a streamer that got banned because they had ACT running in the background visible. That's the difference is those streamers failed to listen to Yoshi and keep 3rd party usage to themselves. Not only that i during the world first it became blatant about the third party usage. It only takes one to shine the spot light. Streamer's are also held to a second set of TOS which I highly suggest you review.

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Originally Posted by gotaname1

Gotta say current events really pulled out the trolls on this forum.

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https://memegenerator.net/img/images...00/1126580.jpg

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Originally Posted by gotaname1

Gotta say current events really pulled out the trolls on this forum.

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I don't believe it's pulled out anyone. They've always been here, telling us how bad the game is and how it's been dying for the last 8 years.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

I don't believe it's pulled out anyone. They've always been here, telling us how bad the game is and how it's been dying for the last 8 years.

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I disagree with what you say and your opinion therefore that makes you a toxic troll
The forums in a nutshell

They bent the knee by banning people for openly breaking the ToS?
Wtf are you talking about?

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Originally Posted by Johners

Square Enix aren't bending the knee to anyone as it was always against the terms of service. The problem is that the game has no client-side protections to detect or prevent the use of third party tools. The only way in which Square Enix will know that you're using these tools is by streaming it or talking about it and thus that makes you an easy target to get reported.

All this situation encourages is for people to not stream or try to hide their third party tool usage. Certain more adult areas of the modding community already do this in order to stay out of Square Enix's radar but that fundamentally doesn't solve the problem. This is a multi-platform game and by not taking ownership of the modding situation, Square Enix are actually failing the entire player base.

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You don't need it. Park a GM in a popular botting location or have them shadow known botters who have received multiple reports and they'll have plenty of evidence by the end of the day. The two most notorious market board botters on my server aren't even subtle about cheating. They just know there's zero chance they get any sort of punishment. By coming down so hard on streamers it all but shows that the dev team will only exercise the ToS muscle when violations slap them in the face, repeatedly. And only after a massive 5chan report brigade. Additionally, it shows they care more about stopping QoL addons because it makes the lackluster customization options all the more apparent than they do about genuine cheaters who have all but destroyed crafting in this game.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

You don't need it. Park a GM in a popular botting location or have them shadow known botters who have received multiple reports and they'll have plenty of evidence by the end of the day. The two most notorious market board botters on my server aren't even subtle about cheating. They just know there's zero chance they get any sort of punishment. By coming down so hard on streamers it all but shows that the dev team will only exercise the ToS muscle when violations slap them in the face, repeatedly. And only after a massive 5chan report brigade. Additionally, it shows they care more about stopping QoL addons because it makes the lackluster customization options all the more apparent than they do about genuine cheaters who have all but destroyed crafting in this game.

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Uh, the difference between Streamers and non-Streamers is that we can physically see what they're doing on their screen.
It's no longer private use they're making it public for the world to see.
I just dunno what the implication even is here, that just because it was some 5chan people they should ignore it and not punish blatant breaches of ToS?

If they didn't do it in spite of the evidence too the message it'd send is essentially that Streamers play by different rules and get special treatment.
Just because others get away with it doesn't change that or mean that it should go ignored when Streamers do it, it's just way easier to see with your own eyes in realtime when Streamers do it.

5chan aside if a large group of people report simultaneously it's also going to get forwarded faster and the reports will be escalated.
People can talk about how petty it is etc but ultimately it still doesn't change the breaking of ToS live in front of hundreds or thousands of people that's ultimately the punishable offense.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

As I said I don't know. I don't know their ban history either. However I do know of certain things.

Bagelgoose looks like he was using by the screenshots - Cactbot. Considering the DEATH REPORT is in the screenshot - I can see why they now call it cheating. Bit more than just an ACT parser.

Pyromancer may have been lucky by deleting his videos so by the time a GM may have had the time to gather the evidence it was taken down.

The other streamer used a different launcher. I actually UNDERSTAND the reasons why you would want to use a different launcher, but at the same time - the default launcher is one of few advertisement boards that SE has. So Seeing that launcher and not knowing specifically what it does - as well as airing it on screen is a really bad idea.

So maybe you're right people haven't been banned for an ACT parse, but at least 2 out of 3 of those cases was more than just ACT numbers.

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In regards to Pyromancer, he advertised the addons he used.
Which Yoshi-P has stated multiple times VERY clearly is NOT allowed and that if you use them you should do it silently.
Pyromancer has quite proudly and openly advertised them and gone into detail about what he uses when asked about it.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

"Obvious" bots. Here's the thing. It may seem "Obvious" but how would you actually prove it is a bot? It being obvious doesn't mean it is because you have nothing to go off of other than "Look! It's acting like a bot!". The only thing "Obvious" is the YouTuber's/Streamers running ACT and a bunch of mods on their screen while playing.

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What are you even trying to say with this point? Are you trying to suggest that these bots aren't actually bots? Are you trying to suggest that a bot that has movement predictable down to an inch with timing that can be predicted down to the second alongside various other cheats such as skipping animation locks and manages to pull all of this off around the clock, 24/7 still might be a real player that just has some incredible endurance, timing and consistency that would make a world first DSR team weep?

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There is no issue. Break the ToS and you get punished. You and other's knew full well what would happen and still played in the fire. Now that you got burned you want to cry wolf.

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Oh ok, I guess you just don't have a clue what you are spouting. How on earth am I crying wolf? I certainly didn't get burned because I don't play in said fire. I'm simply trying to put forward the points that A) SE handled this situation badly and B) It highlights that actually, ToS enforcement is handled far too erratically.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Bagelgoose looks like he was using by the screenshots - Cactbot. Considering the DEATH REPORT is in the screenshot - I can see why they now call it cheating. Bit more than just an ACT parser.

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A fair opinion, although IMHO Death Report is pretty firmly in the QoL camp (It's basically giving you quick access to whatever killed someone rather than having to dig through a spammy combat log), the stuff it comes bundled with isn't.

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The other streamer used a different launcher. I actually UNDERSTAND the reasons why you would want to use a different launcher, but at the same time - the default launcher is one of few advertisement boards that SE has. So Seeing that launcher and not knowing specifically what it does - as well as airing it on screen is a really bad idea.

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If it's the launcher I think it is, I'm pretty sure it still shows advertisement boards no? Granted yeah, showing that stuff is certifiably daft.

This still doesn't explain the very specific timing and window in which all of this happened though? It just doesn't make sense if you look at it from SE's perspective. Why would they pull the pin on this sort of action right after the race is won and interest in the streams is effectively over?

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

because proving a character is a bot requires giving access to your computer which involves privacy laws and so on I imagine and that is something SE is not willing to go that way vs a streamer that got banned because they had ACT running in the background visible. That's the difference is those streamers failed to listen to Yoshi and keep 3rd party usage to themselves. Not only that i during the world first it became blatant about the third party usage. It only takes one to shine the spot light. Streamer's are also held to a second set of TOS which I highly suggest you review.

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Again, if a character A) Has entirely predictable movement B) has entirely predictable timing and C) Maintains this consistency round the clock, what else is there to prove? Do you think SE need to prove this irrefutably in a court of law or something? Let me suggest you review the ToS right now:

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YOU ACQUIRE NO OWNERSHIP OR PROPERTY RIGHTS IN ANY CHARACTER OR OTHER IN-GAME VIRTUAL GOOD, AND ARE ONLY LICENSED TO USE SUCH CHARACTERS AND ASSETS ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THE AGREEMENTS. YOU AGREE THAT YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT AND ANY VIRTUAL GOODS AND CHARACTERS DO NOT HAVE ANY MONETARY VALUE. SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU.

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They have the right to ban you because they don't like your hair for all it matters.

If you stream publicly that you are breaking the ToS i don't think it matters whoever is bending what to whom. Some streamers stupidity and outright carelessness is really astounding. And does it really matter where the reports came from?

So maybe just maybe some streamers should try to actually hide their not so allowed activities and don't showcase to the whole world that they don't give a crap, streamers have been way too bold for way too long and even if you are a fan of mods etc. this reckless behavior of streamers is also hurting the modding community cause they drag it violently into the spotlight for everyone to see and thus force SE hand in the end. For hydaelyns sake it's not that hard to hide your dirty laundry under something.