The general direction of job changes is straight asinine. Literally NO ONE benefits.

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Originally Posted by rewd

Are we playing the same game or reading the same forums?

If there is a role that gets compassion, pity and leeway, that's healer. It's the only role in the game that lets you afk and a portion of the playerbase will encourage you to do so.

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Perhaps my personal experience has just been drastically different than the norm, but as far as reading the same forums, I've only recently joined the forums to decry the 6.1 changes, so I haven't seen much - the post about healers that I originally replied to was the first I'd seen along those lines since joining, and since thrashing bad healers aligned with what I've seen in-game, I presumed that was par for the course. If I'm mistaken, then by all means, disregard what I said.

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Originally Posted by cjbeagle

Perhaps my personal experience has just been drastically different than the norm, but as far as reading the same forums, I've only recently joined the forums to decry the 6.1 changes, so I haven't seen much - the post about healers that I originally replied to was the first I'd seen along those lines since joining, and since thrashing bad healers aligned with what I've seen in-game, I presumed that was par for the course. If I'm mistaken, then by all means, disregard what I said.

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It's not about trashing low-skill players. Something that's largely understood not rarely spoken is that if you're a struggling healer who's trying to salvage a messy run, then yes you should be focusing on healing and trying to learn the fight you're in to make it out alright. It's okay to be in that learning stage, and as long as you're trying your best, then you're fine. People may want to give you tips and advice, but it's largely with the desire to help, not to belittle. Sometimes there are exceptions, but the game does a poor job of teaching players how to prioritize their healing, and thus skilled healers want to help new players understand what the game refuses to teach them.

Where the frustration comes into play is that there is a minor subset of players who choose to not DPS regardless of whether healing is needed or not because they want to pretend they're playing a different game where healing is performed 100% of the time and DPS is not performed at all. They believe they are justified in roleplaying this healbot fantasy when in practice it's griefing. This game is foundationally built with the mindset that healers will contribute to DPS one way or another as much as they feasibly can. Not contributing has a massive negative impact on the experience of other players, and in more challenging content, can make clearing fights literally impossible. This is not them trying their hardest. This is them being selfish and entitled, wasting other player's time because they want to try and enforce a gameplay system that does not exist in this game. It's comparable to the age-old example of "Ice Mage" BLM. Imagine a BLM player refusing to use any and all fire spells because "I want to be an ice mage," and telling you that it's their right to play this way, and you have no right to report them for griefing even when they're intentionally underperforming.

It's just a part of good sportsmanship in multiplayer environments regardless of genre that you should respect the time and dedication the other players around you are investing into the game by playing your best. That doesn't mean play perfectly or get screwed; it means try, be open to polite feedback, and don't take advantage of other players' time.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

that there is a minor subset of players who choose to not DPS regardless of whether healing is needed or not because they want to pretend they're playing a different game where healing is performed 100% of the time and DPS is not performed at all. They believe they are justified in roleplaying this healbot fantasy

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I see! I didn't know such players existed - in that case I absolutely understand the frustration and am glad I haven't encountered any of them yet, holy crap.

Thank you for explaining that to me!

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Originally Posted by cjbeagle

I see! I didn't know such players existed - in that case I absolutely understand the frustration and am glad I haven't encountered any of them yet, holy crap.

Thank you for explaining that to me!

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It's an incredibly small niche of players especially in this era, but the forums do get a few trolls here and there. Hard to say if they genuinely play that way or if they're just being trolls. It comes across as being a much bigger issue than it realistically is.

As an old DRK main who saw his job being literally deleted from the game 3 years ago in SHB release and substitute with the current brain dead WAR knock off I can't agree more with the op.

I been struggling so much to enjoy this game since just to fight for get my fav job back and get told that they direction of the game is more important that our feedback, I feel lied on my face everytime Yoship come with the "we are a team that listen to our fans".

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Originally Posted by shao32

As an old DRK main who saw his job being literally deleted from the game 3 years ago in SHB release and substitute with the current brain dead WAR knock off I can't agree more with the op.

I been struggling so much to enjoy this game since just to fight for get my fav job back and get told that they direction of the game is more important that our feedback, I feel lied on my face everytime Yoship come with the "we are a team that listen to our fans".

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I don't think we are ever getting back the job which got deleted 3 years ago. Still bothers me to this day when I booted up FFXIV with ShB and I saw the joke that had become DRK 5.0. It's a shame.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

I don't think we are ever getting back the job which got deleted 3 years ago. Still bothers me to this day when I booted up FFXIV with ShB and I saw the joke that had become DRK 5.0. It's a shame.

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I doubt it too, they show no consideration whatsoever for those who mained the job when they made those changes and the comment in Endwalker job presentation "we know many want the old HW job design back but this is our path we are following now" it was like, that's it, they officially say us in a kind way they don't give a f*** about our feedback and feelings no matter how much we asked for it, and this obviously apply to healers, bards, ect ect.

Idk why I'm still here to be honest, I never felt so disrespected by a dev team before and it's so sad to see what they did to DRK is actually becoming a norm in other jobs bcs the dev team in they infinite wisdom think is better show no respect for the jobs of they own game and gut them instead of develop a proper teaching system, in fact I actually believe they don't care if ppl play good or bad, I think they are oversimplifing everything so it takes less maintenance for the 4 size team that are in charge of jobs with the same number of member since ARR and don't care if ppl get mad bcs of it, we see it with DRK, we see it with Healers, We see it with Bard and we see with everything that has been gutted and got nothing in return.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Monk has always had these traits, none of these are particularly new to EW MNK. Multiple openers and "rotations" were always on the job, as the nature of its GCD combos always allowed some level of flexibility. Don't pretend that MNK didn't have "actual" skill expression before just because it was a clunkier job, because it most certainly did.

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God some times I miss triple tornado kick opener monk from end stormblood. Never played monk and seeing that you could do that did blow my mind actually (played healer all the time back then)

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Originally Posted by shao32

As an old DRK main who saw his job being literally deleted from the game 3 years ago in SHB release and substitute with the current brain dead WAR knock off I can't agree more with the op.

I been struggling so much to enjoy this game since just to fight for get my fav job back and get told that they direction of the game is more important that our feedback, I feel lied on my face everytime Yoship come with the "we are a team that listen to our fans".

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Yeah Hw and Stormblood were as a drk player you had too actually use some brain cells to play the job, now it’s just every 2 minutes “random bullshit go” time

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

That is subjective. I personally don't find EW MNK's burst any more or less interesting than how it functioned in ShB. We just now prioritize maintaining Twin Snakes/Demolish over squeezing out as many Bootshine/DKs as possible.

As for skill expression, I will reiterate: it always had it in one way or another, whether it be Shoulder Tackle management, alternating dirty/clean PB, positionals in general and all of the True North/Riddle of Earth management that came with it (especially on fights like E9S and E11S), and well- the entire rabbit hole that was Greased Lightning.

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What I also miss is that riddle doesn’t has a true north function anymore. Yes I’d did made the job feel “skill based” but It also made it felt way more rewarding too use in my eyes.