6.1 MSQ showcases the narrative problems that continue to plague the game's story

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I'm going to refrain from commenting further on this "necessary evil" talk because those of us who see Venat as what she is are unlikely to ever be convinced of the opposing view at this stage. Take it to the other threads.

One point of concern for the apparent direction of the story moving forward is a continued focus on more nebulous "battle of morals" nonsense which I don't think is a good place for Season 2 to start off with. Granted, we already started it off on the wrong foot given that no attempt was made to distance ourselves from the Season 1 cast and anyone who starts the game as 6.1, which we know from translations to be considered as a potential future starting point, will be hopelessly lost. In these respects, the patch greatly failed in delivering.

I suppose one could read the codex, only to get a highly abridged if not biased view of previous events/characters like the aforementioned rebel angel who damned all humanity with her arrogance. I imagine from the perspective of a new player, the reception to the introduction of the Scions may vary. If one hasn't suffered through so many expansions of Y'shtola doing nothing and her character remaining stale as ever, I imagine that 6.1's Y'shtola may leave a good impression. The same does not hold for G'raha Tia, whose already strange appearance combined with his mannerisms might give someone pause, being viewed as little more than an annoying sidekick if they have no prior knowledge of the character's backstory. Urianger and Thancred are on and off the screen too fast for them to form much of an opinion from, and despite many's love for Estinien he could come across as rather stoic and boring if this was their introduction to him.

The loss of an instanced battle this patch was also alarming, though I understand such resources were poured into the Garlemald role quest...the only question being as to why both could not be developed and released simultaneously. The inclusion of these battles in the MSQ serve to break up the constant back and forth talking and add in some much needed action, without it things definitely felt off.

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would you rather they straight up delete the rest of the scions and introduce a brand new cast that no one cares about?

You do realize that we've taken but a single step into an entirely new story arc. we literally have not had the time to form new bonds with people outside of the scions, and even when we do, the scions are going to continue to be in our social circle because they are our friends and are ready to come to our aid at a moment's notice.

Also, you don't get to say in one breath "i'm not going to discuss 'necessary evils' take it somewhere else" whilst spouting your nonsensical "rebel angel who damned humanity with her arrogance" spiel. That's the equivalent of saying "i'm right and you're wrong, and nothing you say will convince me otherwise."

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Originally Posted by Jason_Ashford

would you rather they straight up delete the rest of the scions and introduce a brand new cast that no one cares about?

You do realize that we've taken but a single step into an entirely new story arc. we literally have not had the time to form new bonds with people outside of the scions, and even when we do, the scions are going to continue to be in our social circle because they are our friends and are ready to come to our aid at a moment's notice.

Also, you don't get to say in one breath "i'm not going to discuss 'necessary evils' take it somewhere else" whilst spouting your nonsensical "rebel angel who damned humanity with her arrogance" spiel. That's the equivalent of saying "i'm right and you're wrong, and nothing you say will convince me otherwise."

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Yes. I do not support the idea of forever characters in this game. I do not want this game to be like WoW with unkillable characters like Sylvanas or Anduin. The Scions and especially G'raha Tia are little more than plushies and comfort characters that can have *nothing* happen to them. There is no further potential for growth unless the writing direction stops treating them this way.

A bit more than "a single step" should have been taken in the patch advertised as the start of Season 2. That means get in some new cast members. Let the Scions have their rest. I do not want their help anymore. Introduce and give us a reason to care about our new cast members. Surely the writing team can dedicate some time to this rather than writing more unnecessary college dorm scenes.

And yeah, my opinion on Venat isn't changing anytime soon. I liked interacting with her as an Ancient prior to the disaster of Elpis and from that point onwards I completely disagree with the course of action she took. If you want to discuss that in greater detail there are other threads for that.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Yes. I do not support the idea of forever characters in this game. I do not want this game to be like WoW with unkillable characters like Sylvanas or Anduin. The Scions and especially G'raha Tia are little more than plushies and comfort characters that can have *nothing* happen to them. There is no further potential for growth unless the writing direction stops treating them this way.

A bit more than "a single step" should have been taken in the patch advertised as the start of Season 2. That means get in some new cast members. Let the Scions have their rest. I do not want their help anymore. Introduce and give us a reason to care about our new cast members. Surely the writing team can dedicate some time to this rather than writing more unnecessary college dorm scenes.

And yeah, my opinion on Venat isn't changing anytime soon. I liked interacting with her as an Ancient prior to the disaster of Elpis and from that point onwards I completely disagree with the course of action she took. If you want to discuss that in greater detail there are other threads for that.

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it's literally patch 6.1 we still have 4 more major patches before the next expansion, there is PLENTY of time for new characters to come into focus. The devs are going to tell their story at their own pace and not the pace you dictate. Whether you like it or not, the scions are not going anywhere. That is literally the purpose of them making it abundantly clear that the scions disbanding was just a facade so they could walk their own paths without being entangled by politics. The difference between the scions and someone like Sylvanas is that they are well written characters that have no reason to just up and vanish from the game forever at this time.

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And yeah, my opinion on Venat isn't changing anytime soon. I liked interacting with her as an Ancient prior to the disaster of Elpis and from that point onwards I completely disagree with the course of action she took.

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good for you, you're free to disagree as much as you want, but if you don't want to talk about it, keep your opinion on it to yourself. Saying you don't want to discuss it, and then bringing it up immediately afterwards while outright dismissing anyone who responds to it is extremely childish because you're showing everyone that aren't willing to discuss it with anyone who doesn't share your opinion on the matter.

So take your own advice and talk about it elsewhere if you aren't willing to hear people out when you started the discussion yourself.

The above post does not hold because the Scions are not in fact well written. They may have had their moments in the past but they are an utterly bland, homogenous cast that practically all come from the same place and have the same values.

Given the choice between them and a more varied, contrasting party like that of FFIX or a game like Dragon Age Origins then I am choosing the latter.

Their arcs are over. If these writers cannot give them something to do, then get them off my screen. It's literally that simple. Get the FFXVI writing team back with all haste and liberate us from the people who'd rather spend massive amounts of the budget on scenes straight out of the Sims Unversity or the April Fool's FFXIV manga.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

The above post does not hold because the Scions are not in fact well written. They may have had their moments in the past but they are an utterly bland, homogenous cast that practically all come from the same place and have the same values.

Given the choice between them and a more varied, contrasting party like that of FFIX or a game like Dragon Age Origins then I am choosing the latter.

Their arcs are over. If these writers cannot give them something to do, then get them off my screen. It's literally that simple. Get the FFXVI writing team back with all haste and liberate us from the people who'd rather spend massive amounts of the budget on scenes straight out of the Sims Unversity or the April Fool's FFXIV manga.

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their arcs are over when the developers decide they are done. Just because *you* don't like them, doesn't mean that the majority feel the same way. I happen to love the scions, i find them interesting and they making questing fun, especially Graha and Alisaie, and recently Estinien.

What arcs? Bar Y'shtola no one is doing much of anything to pursue their alleged goals. Estinien is just kind of along for the ride, and as much as I'm a fan of him I'd wish he was back to his angry self. Even he is starting to wear on my patience.

At this point the most interesting character we have is Vrtra, but we still don't have it confirmed that he'll join the party permanently (and for goodness sake I hope he does so he can permentaly boot Alphinaud from our ranks).

The current situation is that we have writing that ultimately more like fanction. Character A does thing B but doesn't suffer C consequences. It's a circular loop that style of writing is almost always based off. Nothing. Important. Happens. You cannot hope to tell a story worth sticking around for if it keeps up like this.

Unfortunately, I am not like one of the Scion fangirls or fanboys on twitter who spends all day retweeting images and fanarts of them. You need to tell me a story of substance in order to get my attention or at the very least provide enough gameplay to warrant the bore of skipping the cutscenes where not much is going on. The critique that this game is leaning more recently towards a visual novel is a valid one, but even visual novels have better character development than the Scions do.

Don't know about the Scion's - I like them well enough, but I do hope we get to explore what has happened with some of the 'lesser' characters we interacted with during our journey but didn't really see in Endwalker.

I'd love to know what Fordola is up to, for example. And it'd be good to Ryne and Gaia again too.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

What arcs? Bar Y'shtola no one is doing much of anything to pursue their alleged goals. Estinien is just kind of along for the ride, and as much as I'm a fan of him I'd wish he was back to his angry self. Even he is starting to wear on my patience.

At this point the most interesting character we have is Vrtra, but we still don't have it confirmed that he'll join the party permanently (and for goodness sake I hope he does so he can permentaly boot Alphinaud from our ranks).

The current situation is that we have writing that ultimately more like fanction. Character A does thing B but doesn't suffer C consequences. It's a circular loop that style of writing is almost always based off. Nothing. Important. Happens. You cannot hope to tell a story worth sticking around for if it keeps up like this.

Unfortunately, I am not like one of the Scion fangirls or fanboys on twitter who spends all day retweeting images and fanarts of them. You need to tell me a story of substance in order to get my attention or at the very least provide enough gameplay to warrant the bore of skipping the cutscenes where not much is going on. The critique that this game is leaning more recently towards a visual novel is a valid one, but even visual novels have better character development than the Scions do.

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again, and this is the third time i've had to say this, but THIS IS JUST PATCH 6.1
We literally have not had time to delve in to what the other scions are doing at this moment and you're going to whine about them not pursuing their goals? Are you actually trolling? because i can't understand how you can be this dense.

Do you expect them to churn out an expansion's worth of story telling with every patch? Because it honestly sounds like you're deliberately being contentious just to stir up arguments.

And? What is the excuse for wasting the budget animating the male Miqote skeleton again for a one-off scene instead of an action sequence? Void creatures fighting each other or something? Or better yet, fixing the ongoing catastrophe with Hrothgar?

You don't need to tell an expansion's worth of story, but you have to do *something.* Aside from the void scenes and learning about Vrtra's sister, barely anything of interest happened in this patch. It's never too early to introduce new goals for characters cast members (unless the goal was to provide the resulting lackluster beginning to Season 2 we ended up receiving) and what better point to introduce new cast members than say, the beginning?

Now if they are wanting to do something like having those new cast members come in with the next expansion's new classes or have them be a female Hrothgar only then is it understandable to hold off, but that cannot be the case for each potential new party member.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

And? What is the excuse for wasting the budget animating the male Miqote skeleton again for a one-off scene instead of an action sequence? Void creatures fighting each other or something? Or better yet, fixing the ongoing catastrophe with Hrothgar?

You don't need to tell an expansion's worth of story, but you have to do *something.* Aside from the void scenes and learning about Vrtra's sister, barely anything of interest happened in this patch. It's never too early to introduce new goals for characters cast members (unless the goal was to provide the resulting lackluster beginning to Season 2 we ended up receiving) and what better point to introduce new cast members than say, the beginning?

Now if they are wanting to do something like having those new cast members come in with the next expansion's new classes or have them be a female Hrothgar only then is it understandable to hold off, but that cannot be the case for each potential new party member.

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what exactly are you expecting them to do? they said well in advance that we would essentially be starting from square 1 once again because this is the start of a brand new story, hence the appropriately titled Newfound Adventure as the name-card of this patch. They are not going to immediately jump into another world destroying crisis. it takes time to set the stage for future events, so of course things are going to slow down, they have barely begun setting up events lead into the next expansion.