Our Azem - A secret plan? (Slight EW Spoilers)

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

I wonder then what goal (if any) all 14 sundered Azem clones (I’m gonna call them clones for now) might’ve been working toward…

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It's all very ambiguous how it worked, but I don't think Azem would have a way of communicating with the other Azems even if they know they're out there. The Ascians have the power to traverse the rift but they have to give up their physical bodies to do so, and as covered in the course of the story, there's no other known way for mortals to cross the rift until the Future Ironworks in the bad timeline work it out.

Additionally, Azem may not have been on talking terms with the remnants of the Convocation at that point.

I'm not convinced that they would necessarily have a post-Sundering plan at all beyond each one independently "keep on Azemming and helping people as best I can in this strange new reality".

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's all very ambiguous how it worked, but I don't think Azem would have a way of communicating with the other Azems even if they know they're out there. The Ascians have the power to traverse the rift but they have to give up their physical bodies to do so, and as covered in the course of the story, there's no other known way for mortals to cross the rift until the Future Ironworks in the bad timeline work it out.

Additionally, Azem may not have been on talking terms with the remnants of the Convocation at that point.

I'm not convinced that they would necessarily have a post-Sundering plan at all beyond each one independently "keep on Azemming and helping people as best I can in this strange new reality".

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I agree it seems difficult for each shard to communicate - but perhaps Azem had a plan already set in motion before the sundering? Given this slightly less apocalyptic version of Venat’s sundering - I could see Azem (and friends) working on a plan of some sort to be put in motion post-sundering.

I’d still like to know why Azem wasn’t on team Zokiark or team Venat. There’s a story point missing there…

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

I wonder then what goal (if any) all 14 sundered Azem clones (I’m gonna call them clones for now) might’ve been working toward…

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Assuming the memory wipe happened right at the Sundering, then previous dispositions may be in play. And by that, I mean Azem's natural disposition towards helping people and exploring the world. Azem himself did it, the WoL does it, Ardbert did it, it seems that certain things are just hardcoded into a soul...like Hermes and Amon's nihilism.

The sundered Ancients are referred to as "malformed creatures" by the unsundered with Varis commenting back in SB that the sundering is the reason the different races exist.

https://i.imgur.com/4abHqBS.jpg

I'm not certain that the Ancients would've been sundered into exact replicas, but there isn't much in game to go on and the Ryne scene could be easily dismissed as a simple demonstration to get the point across. If they were identical, then that's some advanced evolution at play shrinking them down to a fraction of the size with some developing bestial attributes.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

The sundered Ancients are referred to as "malformed creatures" by the unsundered with Varis commenting back in SB that the sundering is the reason the different races exist.

https://i.imgur.com/4abHqBS.jpg

I'm not certain that the Ancients would've been sundered into exact replicas, but there isn't much in game to go on and the Ryne scene could be easily dismissed as a simple demonstration to get the point across. If they were identical, then that's some advanced evolution at play shrinking them down to a fraction of the size with some developing bestial attributes.

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Considering that their common trait was creation magick it might have an affect on how their descendants would develop, creation magick being unconciously used after being sundered. (just a theory though, don't know the mechanics of magic too much)

I wouldn't count on Varis having the whole truth. Wasn't his plan more or less 'do all the rejoinings, and then mankind will be perfect again and we can kill the ascians' seemingly ignorant of who the ascians actually were?

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

The sundered Ancients are referred to as "malformed creatures" by the unsundered with Varis commenting back in SB that the sundering is the reason the different races exist.

https://i.imgur.com/4abHqBS.jpg

I'm not certain that the Ancients would've been sundered into exact replicas, but there isn't much in game to go on and the Ryne scene could be easily dismissed as a simple demonstration to get the point across. If they were identical, then that's some advanced evolution at play shrinking them down to a fraction of the size with some developing bestial attributes.

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(Part 1 of 2)

Yeah. This is why I was inclined to think the Ryne scene with Emet wasn’t literal when it came to the planets. This info seemed to put forward the sundering was more alchemical - rather than a simple copy/paste. That the elements of the source/original planet were scattered and used to make entirely new things (while bits and pieces of their original selves stayed apparently). That’s why I thought Venat killed everyone - because in this case, she did - but she used all the little pieces to make brand new people on each new planet. In this case, the Azem she knew died - but their soul was sundered to “power” 14 new beings. So yes, she technically killed everyone in this case - because the people they were originally, were each destroyed to make 14 new people.

But I also found the remnants of Amaurot confusing on the first. If there are identical ruins left over on each reflection, then I would be more inclined to believe the copy/paste version of the sundering. And then we’d be working with the “14 Azem” version of events.

My personal understanding was that the sundering wasn’t gentle - nor was it organized. It ripped the planet apart - scattering pieces between the reflections, creating new life on each one - and leaving pieces of the original planet in ruins (like those discovered on the first).

I’m open to either version of the sundering. Either the “broken down into components” version, or the “14 Azem” one. I imagine the writers are playing a bit fast and loose here too.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

The sundered Ancients are referred to as "malformed creatures" by the unsundered with Varis commenting back in SB that the sundering is the reason the different races exist.

https://i.imgur.com/4abHqBS.jpg

I'm not certain that the Ancients would've been sundered into exact replicas, but there isn't much in game to go on and the Ryne scene could be easily dismissed as a simple demonstration to get the point across. If they were identical, then that's some advanced evolution at play shrinking them down to a fraction of the size with some developing bestial attributes.

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(Part 2 of 2)

Given the quote above - it’s possible Varis meant that the “14 Azem” scenario lead to new races evolving down the line, and not that the sundering itself was the direct cause.

But it can just as easily be taken literally - meaning one original Azem got ripped apart, their elemental parts were scattered over 14 new planets - and those parts, each sharing a piece of a memory wiped soul - became a new person with the possibility of also being an entirely new race.

I’d also believe Azem (and their friends) were personally responsible for the new races. As Azem seemed to be a non-conformist, I could see them, and their friends all marching around looking however they pleased appearance-wise. This might also be the solution to showing Azem down the line in-game. If you’re playing a cat-person, Azem shows up as a cat person - because that’s the form they chose to take. Then when the sundering happens - original cat-person Azem gets split apart to make 14 identical cat-person Azems, who each start that race on their respective shards. (Maybe their rebellious friends also take the forms of the different races).

It’s unfortunate that the sundering itself is still murky - as I was hoping for some pay-off in EW as to what happened to the originator of our character’s soul. But there’s still plenty of time to explore that part of the story.

I’m hoping we get to learn more - but until then I happy to speculate (:

Do we have any interviews or supplementary lore that would confirm which version of the sundering is the way it went down?

Did we have literally 14 Azem on 14 identical planets?

Or did we have 14 new planets with pieces of the original scattered around - used to make entirely new people (“powered” by pieces of old souls).

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Originally Posted by Veloran

I think it's possible Azem may have been busy frying a completely different fish. We still have no idea why the Sound itself was coming from inside the planet.

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I can't agree with this more! Before they introduced Meteion, I was 1000% positive the keening was Lavos / Jenova / Planet Parasite within the star and our Azem had gone down to deal with the problem head on (seal it / weaken it / put it to sleep / w/e). The entire story seemed to heavily imply this was why Azem left. Azem is a traveler that solves problems through friendship / companions. It was obviously pointing to their final trial. However, with Endwalker, I'm definitely taking a second look at this. Since there was no issue within the star (it's explicitly said the sound didn't come from within but outside in Endwalker which was a super retcon that they could of course retcon again), where was our Azem at this point? I truly hope there is an alternative way to help the unsundered world, but it very much seems like due to the dialogue of Emet / rest of the ancient trio, it's done.

They tried and failed to save their world. We tried and succeeded thanks to Venat and well ourselves playing a 12,000yr long game. They're going to the aetherial sea and we're to continue our journey. I'm positive the XIV team won't let this plot point rot, but it had me pretty sad that I'm still left wondering with this being the final expansion for this 10yr saga.