Lore Forum Decorum - Just What is Meant by Good/Bad Faith?

I don't recall a similar morality issue in ShB or any of the other expansions. They didn't rejoin the First and then spend the rest of the expansion throwing every excuse and the kitchen sink at the player as to why it was the best thing that could've happened.

It's certainly odd because in the Discord communities I'm in there's certainly not the rampant toxicity that's described. Some arguments get heated, sure, but said servers tend to have rules for a reason and those get enforced, and even then it's expected the arguments to be in good faith. I don't even use reddit and only open Twitter once or twice a day since I only use it to follow my favorite XIV creators (and Neil Gaiman). The spaces one frequents, I guess...

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Originally Posted by Fenral

I know I'm spectacularly unpopular, so all I can really say is that it's never my intention to upset or offend anyone. (It can happen; I blame catboy RBF.)

Aside from FC chat, I don't discuss FFXIV anywhere else, because Lore used to be the accept-no-substitutes best. It was hard to come back after a brief hiatus to find it consumed in the negativity and vitriol I came here to escape, but in spite of myself, I'm also not quite ready to give up on it yet.

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And that's a shame because I remember finding out a few months ago that our favorite catboy was in 2 West End productions of some of my favorite musicals and thought "Wonder if Fenral knows about it?", and alas there was no Fenral. Certainly a "If I had a nickle for every time Jonathan Bailey has played a character named Jamie in a West End Musical, I'd have... 2 nickles. Which is not a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice." moment

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Originally Posted by Veloran

Shadowbringers recieved nothing but glowing praise (more or less) because the narrative was far more tightly written and had far less plot holes and inconsistencies. Like the worst plot hole I can think of would be G'raha coming in at the end of 5.0 and despite being shot, beaten, exhausted, and far from the Crystal Tower, enacting a summoning spell for seven people that he barely managed to complete for WoL when we were helping him on our end. And this is very egregious, but people let it slide because it was part of possibly the best sequence in the entire game. Endwalker's issues are more widespread by comparison and affect much more than a single moment.

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It's much easier to have less plot holes and inconsistencies when you're placing the the story entirely in a separate world and kinda have it doing its own thing. They were pretty much working with a blank slate. The Ascian plot is probably the only thing that affects the game world as a whole and it's the first time they really delved into it as the plans of the Ascians were extremely vague before that

Personally, I think Endwalker did a wonderful job tying lots of things together and giving them a satisfying end for such a long ending series.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

It's much easier to have less plot holes and inconsistencies when you're placing the the story entirely in a separate world and kinda have it doing its own thing. They were pretty much working with a blank slate. The Ascian plot is probably the only thing that affects the game world as a whole and it's the first time they really delved into it as the plans of the Ascians were extremely vague before that

Personally, I think Endwalker did a wonderful job tying lots of things together and giving them a satisfying end for such a long ending series.

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It wasn’t really a blank slate, in fact i’d say it was more challenging as they had to try and fit the overarching story into this new world without it feeling shoved in. They did a pretty good job at that and didn’t make it feel too contrived. They even kind of saved themselves from the whole time travel issue but getting rid of said time travel device. Endwalker you can very easily tell, was just destroyed by them changing the end date from 7.0 to 6.0 and we aren’t even going to have any patches to explain all of the unanswered questions since they stated 6.1+ would be entirely new stuff. For people who have been around since even 1.0 and are avid lore enthusiasts it was kind of a slap in the face for all of these built up lore points only to be either completely ignored,dropped altogether, or given such an anticlimactic end.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Yep this exactly. Endwalker just has widespread flaws in comparison to shadowbringers and i think that added on to the fact it’s supposed to be effectively THE ending of this years long arc whilst also being delayed 6-7 months just puts more salt in the wound for people who found it fairly mediocre.

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The only flaw I saw dealt with Zenos and him being an "experiment" never being brought up or dealt with. Something I hope is delved into this expansion with some of the patches.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

For the record I don't use Twitter or Reddit, and the only thing I use Discord for is playing Dungeons & Dragons, precisely because I know a lot of online communities are toxic (or quickly and easily become so) and want no part of that negativity.

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Seconded. Even just browsing Twitter or Reddit for an hour is enough to turn my blue plumage black. And sadly, my current active D&D game is on hiatus.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

And that's a shame because I remember finding out a few months ago that our favorite catboy was in 2 West End productions of some of my favorite musicals and thought "Wonder if Fenral knows about it?", and alas there was no Fenral. Certainly a "If I had a nickle for every time Jonathan Bailey has played a character named Jamie in a West End Musical, I'd have... 2 nickles. Which is not a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice." moment

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That sounds like an unfortunate thing to have missed. Fortunately, I play with JP voices and instead have a nickel for every time Yuuma Uchida has played an insecure red-headed catboy who doesn't deserve to be loved. (Surprisingly, also two nickels.)

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Originally Posted by Fenral

That sounds like an unfortunate thing to have missed. Fortunately, I play with JP voices and instead have a nickel for every time Yuuma Uchida has played an insecure red-headed catboy who doesn't deserve to be loved. (Surprisingly, also two nickels.)

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Which isn't a lot, but it's strange that it has happened twice now, huh?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

The only flaw I saw dealt with Zenos and him being an "experiment" never being brought up or dealt with. Something I hope is delved into this expansion with some of the patches.

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The hydaelyn and zodiark arc is finished though. Everything 6.1+ is entirely new things according to the devs besides the pandaemonium raids and i highly doubt we’re going to get zenos in those. One flaw i can think of off the top of my head is the whole body snatch arc literally amounting to nothing. All that terror and dread amounted to zilch. Not to mention the horrible pacing issues.

I do agree that by forcing two expansion length stories into one, SE induced alot of weirdness that spilled out onto the forums (also, please stop with the speeches every five minutes please). However, I feel this divide reaches back to ShB and the factions created in support or opposition to certain characters.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The hydaelyn and zodiark arc is finished though. Everything 6.1+ is entirely new things according to the devs besides the pandaemonium raids and i highly doubt we’re going to get zenos in those. One flaw i can think of off the top of my head is the whole body snatch arc literally amounting to nothing. All that terror and dread amounted to zilch. Not to mention the horrible pacing issues.

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I'm not so sure. It felt like something there hinting at what they could do to us later in MSQ. Imagine if we entered a new land, and somebody steals our body by throwing out our soul with some form of magic (similar to the Soul Extraction device), forcing us to have to use a body nearby. Any NPCs from Eorzea would instantly know it's not us in our body, but the locals would not know that. We could have an entire zone story (we'd be glamoured in the mean time) and instance without us in our body, and then get it back at the end of the zone, the locals convinced that we caused everything. It'd make for some good storytelling and give us a foe who would be difficult to fight simply because they could body hop like any Ascian, and not even the Blessing (if it is still there) could protect us. At the same time it could expand on what we were able to do in that instance where we weren't in our own body.