It's time to hire dedicated Tank an Healer devs!

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Having more complex rotations would make tanks and healers incapable of doing their jobs.

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Nobody asks for complex rotations for tanks and healers. :) We ask either for not so boring gameplay when there is nothing to heal or for a gameplay that is vastly different compared to a dps job.

AFAIR with Endwalker there will be some changes for tanks. They will get more cooldowns which are useful for some situations etc.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Most tanks and healers are happy with it.

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https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5684416

Cheers

That means nothing. In the space of just 5 minutes I got both these pictures.

https://i.imgur.com/YCgYqN7.png

https://i.imgur.com/w5fb1eG.png

I've had a lot of DPS instant queues recently for Normal Raids, Trials, Leveling and Level 80 roulettes and haven't tried others on a DPS.

I usually switch between tank, healer and dps just to see what actually pops and it's different every time.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Consider it this way:

Let's say 6.0 lands, and Reaper has had a complete rework again for release.

It's now got a single GCD nuke and a GCD instant 30 second dot from the word go, a 2 minute self haste buff at level 30, a 30 second instant oGCD at 56, and finally a big nuke that needs to be charged during downtime at 74.

That's it. That's it's entire kit to grind through solo MSQ content with.

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As someone so poignantly said in my Healer Double Standard post a few years ago:

Imagine if Tanks had a single 30 second dot and a single button for Aggro and the rest of their tools were defensive CD's. The tanks would Riot.

That's exactly what healers are dealing with right now.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

That means nothing. In the space of just 5 minutes I got both these pictures.

https://i.imgur.com/YCgYqN7.png

https://i.imgur.com/w5fb1eG.png

I've had a lot of DPS instant queues recently for Normal Raids, Trials, Leveling and Level 80 roulettes and haven't tried others on a DPS.

I usually switch between tank, healer and dps just to see what actually pops and it's different every time.

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People going "all the tanks and healers are leaving" are either in denial or never tried to queue as DPS. We've never had that many tanks/healers in DF.

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Originally Posted by Melorie

What I find even funnier is that this is also a game that never focused on only-healing... And if you see any log for any savage fight you'll also see that the healing is minimal.

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Ironically, this is the fault of "gotta pull more/bigger pulls" during the leveling process. All it teaches new players is to "spam heals", and not bother with DPS. Pulling smaller will be slower/less fun, but it teaches Healers just how much down time there is, and that they can DPS.

and if Healers had to actually DPS their way up to max level, they would be begging SE for more DPS options as well as the savage players...

kinda the fault of the community. but i still feel SE should have the foresight to actually understand this, and give healers 1 more GCD to press every 6-10s. (and at least by Lv60)

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

That means nothing. In the space of just 5 minutes I got both these pictures.
https://i.imgur.com/YCgYqN7.png
https://i.imgur.com/w5fb1eG.png

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Before Asmon played, it was pretty much healer only 90% of the time.
Once Asmon started, it seemed like healer was in need more, as Asmon showed ppl how easy tanking was, and too many ppl jumped on tanks. (I had quicker queues as DPS, and my new tank friends were always waiting 30+mins)
Then it tapered off, and all the new players balanced it out, with more new ppl jumping on healers, not knowing what awaits them at endgame.
(They wont know its an issue until they hit max level anyways, and with so many new ppl, most of them are taking dmg to basic dont stand in orange)

If EW didnt contain SGE, id expect it to get worse, but SGE will keep it balanced for awhile. If SGE is good enough, maybe the Healer role will be close to what it used to be (in regards to waiting on healers for queues)
As much as I hate some tank designs atm, it wont hurt tank numbers much. Too many ppl wanted tanks to just be DPS in armor. (not in complexity, but in what their focus is, in gameplay)
Even with DRKs over simplified 123 "gameplay", it wont stop the number of ppl who will play it for aesthetics. (I leveled it solely because I like great swords more than any other weapon, by a HUGE degree.) And at least tanks currently have PLD to play (i friggin hate 1 handed weapons, its the only reason i dont rly main PLD or GNB) if they want more interesting rotations. (followed by GNB)
In short, tanks will be fine, even with SEs terrible decisions. Healers are going to be fine "artificially" for a while. (unless SGE really is that good to play, then until next expansion)

As a final comment on your picture, it ironically proves his point sorta. Main Scenario Roulette, the only content where healers still leveling up cant spam heals, because no one takes enough dmg to do so, so all they can do is DPS. (im sure tank in need shows up. personally, the wait times as tank is too long for that roulette, so i never go as tank myself) (If NO ONE is queued up for something, it defaults to saying tank is in need. Which is commonly the case for Guildhest, despite 0 ppl being queued up, if you try to queue up as a tank. So the guildhest one wouldnt count for tanks vs healers)

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Once Asmon started, it seemed like healer was in need more, as Asmon showed ppl how easy tanking was, and too many ppl jumped on tanks. (I had quicker queues as DPS, and my new tank friends were always waiting 30+mins)

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Actually, the increase in tanks is because of the tank changes, especially the changes in 5.0, DRK being the protagonist of Shadowbringers and Gunbreaker being a free tank that only needs to gain 20 levels.

In the past, there was always room for tanks in the high-end tab in party finder, but after 5.0 what I noticed was that there was more than enough tanks and it was common to see people just enjoying dark knight and gunbreaker, there were tank queues sometimes and healers were sometimes shown as in need instead. But that could be because of the increase in tanks.

It fluctuates a lot depending on the month and the region. What is popular in EU is not the same as what is popular in NA.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Which is ironic considering the game itself tells you to dps instead of just standing there if there's nothing to heal

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If you're referring to the Hall of the Novice it's so horribly out of date that it gets more wrong than it gets right. And the one where they do mention that they SCREAM at you if the tank loses even a sliver of health.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Actually, the increase in tanks is because of the tank changes, especially the changes in 5.0

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Im aware of this increase, I was talking about the month before asmon played (which was roughly the same as every month since ShB, except the 1st month, as ppl adjusted to changes) compared to 2 or so weeks after asmon started playing.
The effect on the duty finder was extremely noticeable, and by a massive degree.

But as you said, differences in data centers, and countries can have completely different results.

another factor that isnt being mentioned (or im not seeing it, with my light skimming) is that the number of healer/tank players might actually be HIGHER than usual, but even then, tanks are just getting more popular than healers, despite the increase in healer players. (based on total player percentage, not actual number of players) which is very likely, due to how SE refuses to make healers less boring, or give them any quality of life changes.

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Originally Posted by AikenDrum

The entire game design has to change to get proper healing and tanking jobs here, it's never gonna happen ^^ Might aswell be asking for fps machinist gameplay or sekiro samurai, it's just silly ^_^

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Can’t we just

1. Lower/reduce oGCD heal potency

2. give back AST their buff and strengthen it further (e.g. a card to reduce spell/skill speed, another card to increase healing potency, a card to skip cast time on healing speed etc, give AST debuff still, like AST could draw a card and put a marker/debuff on a mob and combo with other skill/job. Give us back both sets, turning AST more a support heal

3. Give back SCH their massive dots (never play SCH, no idea what they used to be)

4. WHM become the dedicate power heal, may be give back the AOE aero

This will allow us have a identity of what healer we rather than just 4 healer of different skins, and I believe it is better than just giving all healer more dps skill across the board

Everyone pointing out the tank/healer in need constant being a show of how bad the state is hasn't played the game for very long.


Even in the "golden age" of heavensward complexity, tanks were pretty much always in need, and healers were 2nd.

Dps is more popular because "less anxiety/stress" and "harder to be called out for not doing your job" since it's fairly obvious when a tank or healer messes up.


Nothing to do with job design and everything to do with people's perceptions.