New Gear... for class only? [Glaring Issue] [Request]

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Originally Posted by Ulric

This is not FFXI. This is FFXIV. I'm sorry to disappoint you with this information, but it's a reality you are just going to have to accept. You don't want SE to try new stuff? Then, what's going to draw people in? Pretty graphics aren't all that makes a game, and if the content in the game is all just copy & paste, why not play a cheaper/free game? If everyone lived by "Oh, that's new, I won't touch it." We'd still be in caves, with pointed sticks.

Also, if you'd stop looking at classes and jobs doing the same thing, I'm sure you'd find that they really don't. In the case of Lancer and Dragoon, Dragoon trades off it's survivability for extra damage and TP gain. Whereas staying on Lancer gives you better survivability through cures, stoneskin, etc.

To be honest, LNC/DRG are the only things I can say this with and know I'm right, so anything beyond this, I'd love for someone who knows to be able to correct me.

Marauder and Warrior. I'm not too sure that Warrior loses anything at the moment, but after 1.22b, it may be a trade-off between damage and tanking ability.

Archer and Bard. Well, Archer is straight DPS while Bard is more support. I'd assume that while doing your songs, you won't be attacking or using weaponskills, thus lowering your DPS in order to support your party.

Conjurer and White Mage. Conjurer is able to be a very good magic-using DD, while White Mage takes away abilities to augment that damage for better healing abilities.

Thaumaturge and Black Mage. See Lancer above....

I have nothing for verification on this, so I also apologize if this is incorrect.
I believe it has been said by one of the devs that classes are here to stay. If you want jobs only, go back to FFXI. Complaining about things like this, while not adding anything that would be a reasonable fix, and would also not make the people working on this game go completely batty, is cluttering up our forums that are supposed to be used for the betterment of our communities, and the game.

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I realize this is my first post, but for everyone's information, my brother and friend both have accounts. I've been watching and playing this game since the launch; so, don't dismiss my input.

Anyway, I love how you added that last sentence about "See lancer above" for CNJ and THM...You know why that's so funny? I'll tell you why:

It's hilarious because it just shows everyone how UNINVENTIVE this stupid class--->job system is, and how imperative it is to REPLACE it. Pretty much EVERY class trades off survivability for "better dmg/tp/spam, etc." Archers, Marauders, Gladiators, Lancers, Thaumaturges, and so on were ALL curing themselves to hell, spamming themselves in stoneskin, protecting themselves, Bloodbath-ing, Second Wind-ing, etc. So, what other choice did SE have with jobs, other than trading off survivability for what the da$% job's actual role is lol...

Jobs, as they are now, are just SE's DESPERATE attempt at salvaging this really big fail of a system. They didn't have the heart to phase classes out completely, so instead they created "Jobs" that work the way classes should have worked in the first place. The only Archers, Marauders, and Lancers that should have been curing/stoneskin-ing/protecting themselves are the ones that are "dumb enough" to "sub whm."

The Armoury System is garbage. SE made a very NOBLE effort at innovation, and kudos for trying so hard, but it just is...not......working.........................

Any chance we had for being unique is thrown completely out the window. Every Dragoon is just a carbon copy of any other Dragoon, as is every other choice. At least with XI, although /nin ruined it, there was an OPPORTUNITY to be different than the next guy. If they DID embrace a system SIMILAR to FFXI (NOT a carbon copy) , then this game might have a chance. I'm telling you right now, though, if you can't get the hell over your anti-XI, hater mentality, then these issues will never be resolved.

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Originally Posted by Rykan

I realize this is my first post, but for everyone's information, my brother and friend both have accounts. I've been watching and playing this game since the launch; so, don't dismiss my input.

Anyway, I love how you added that last sentence about "See lancer above" for CNJ and THM...You know why that's so funny? I'll tell you why:

It's hilarious because it just shows everyone how UNINVENTIVE this stupid class--->job system is, and how imperative it is to REPLACE it. Pretty much EVERY class trades off survivability for "better dmg/tp/spam, etc." Archers, Marauders, Gladiators, Lancers, Thaumaturges, and so on were ALL curing themselves to hell, spamming themselves in stoneskin, protecting themselves, Bloodbath-ing, Second Wind-ing, etc. So, what other choice did SE have with jobs, other than trading off survivability for what the da$% job's actual role is lol...

Jobs, as they are now, are just SE's DESPERATE attempt at salvaging this really big fail of a system. They didn't have the heart to phase classes out completely, so instead they created "Jobs" that work the way classes should have worked in the first place. The only Archers, Marauders, and Lancers that should have been curing/stoneskin-ing/protecting themselves are the ones that are "dumb enough" to "sub whm."

The Armoury System is garbage. SE made a very NOBLE effort at innovation, and kudos for trying so hard, but it just is...not......working.........................

Any chance we had for being unique is thrown completely out the window. Every Dragoon is just a carbon copy of any other Dragoon, as is every other choice. At least with XI, although /nin ruined it, there was an OPPORTUNITY to be different than the next guy. If they DID embrace a system SIMILAR (not a carbon copy) to FFXI, then this game might have a chance. I'm telling you right now, though, if you can't get the hell over your anti-XI, hater mentality, then these issues will never be resolved.

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Exactly, people don't understand though, they have the "If you want FFXI go play FFXI" attitude way to much, most of them don't even realize that obviously people want ffxi stuff in this game or it wouldn't be brought up so much. Since I've been playing the majority of stuff people talk about is what they miss in FFXI. Sadly, though some people disagree, the majority of the people (the ones that matter) seem to want essentially this game to be a better version of FFXI, a chance to remake something that a lot of people liked even better and really, SE can take advantage of this. Still the very few people that don't even matter think that these players opinions don't matter and simply say "If you want FFXI go play FFXI." FFXI did the job system right, this game although not bad, is worse, they played with a little, now time to revamp it to something better. That is just my 2c and I know I will get trolled from it by some random but w/e.

This probably isn't the thread for this, but...

Just throwing it out there. If class-centric equipment had some enhancers to cross-class abilities. Heavy armor for Gladiators and Marauders that may enhance an ability outside of their respective classes. Where the job continues to accentuate the exclusives and further the role.

As it stands... well in any game really, I think folks have considered acceptable efficiency. The way that they stack jobs for certain fights type of efficiency. Anything outside that efficiency is generally frowned or not tolerated. With the community heading toward this route of limited acceptable choices, it makes me think that adding new classes/jobs will be a wasted thing.

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Originally Posted by Rykan

I'm telling you right now, though, if you can't get the hell over your anti-XI, hater mentality, then these issues will never be resolved.

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I'm not anti-XI. I'm fine if they take things from it, but I don't want to be playing FFXI again. If I did, I'd be playing it. I agree that the armoury system could be better, but tell me this, could you do better than what's being done now? At the moment, the game is being salvaged from a failed attempt, and I'm fairly certain that the current team is working on a deadline with 2.0, same as the original team was working on one when the game was first released. Something like reworking the armoury system, I'm sure would be unable to be done, along with everything else required of them before 2.0 comes out.

Personally, I think the armoury system is fine. You don't, that's okay. Your opinion, you're entitled to it.

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Originally Posted by Ulric

I'm not anti-XI. I'm fine if they take things from it, but I don't want to be playing FFXI again. If I did, I'd be playing it. I agree that the armoury system could be better, but tell me this, could you do better than what's being done now? At the moment, the game is being salvaged from a failed attempt, and I'm fairly certain that the current team is working on a deadline with 2.0, same as the original team was working on one when the game was first released. Something like reworking the armoury system, I'm sure would be unable to be done, along with everything else required of them before 2.0 comes out.

Personally, I think the armoury system is fine. You don't, that's okay. Your opinion, you're entitled to it.

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Actually, yes I think I could come up with something right off the top of my head. Nobody wants a FINISHED product, right away. We just want the "hope" of something new to come. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH:

IF Yoshi-P will simply make some indication that he is unhappy with the state of the Armoury System, and plans to pretty much revamp it from the ground up, it might make us all "settle down" a bit. However, he seems to just be making slight adjustments to the existing system. In fact, it's actually gotten worse in many ways. It was a lot more fun when classes had access to ANY actions from other lvl'd classes.

While it was pretty much mandatory for ppl to lvl every class (assuming you wanted to be any use at all), at least it was somewhat "rare" to see ppl w/ all the tier II buffs. Now, with this "lvls w/ you as you go action" you just have to lvl the class high enough to GET the action, and then simply port it over to your high lvl class (as long as it's available). You don't even have to bother getting cnj past lvl 4, and your lvl 50 MRD can take full advantage of it. It is the STUPIDIST idea they've pumped out since Day 1.

Edit: P.S. What happened to all the feedback Yoshi got from us back in that first player poll?

"Would you welcome changes to FFXIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea?"

I clicked "Yes." So did some 65+ percent of the voters....

if we abolish class, how do player doing solo without essential skill like cure,stoneskin,sentinel,raise etc on rank 20 and beyond? dont say get a whm.....

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Originally Posted by Aion

if we abolish class, how do player doing solo without essential skill like cure,stoneskin,sentinel,raise etc on rank 20 and beyond? dont say get a whm.....

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they wont get rid of them, people just want any excuse they can find to complain about something
especialy if its something they dont like



also, the poll where they mention changing the game, that doesnt mean you can hide behind that result every time you want something removed from the game, it doesnt work like that

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

they wont get rid of them, people just want any excuse they can find to complain about something
especialy if its something they dont like



also, the poll where they mention changing the game, that doesnt mean you can hide behind that result every time you want something removed from the game, it doesnt work like that

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Ya, because anything someone doesn't like is considered complaining /rollseyes

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Originally Posted by Eliseus

Ya, because anything someone doesn't like is considered complaining /rollseyes

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when you start petitions to have stuff removed and go on and on about how stuff is useless, how classes serve no purpose and need to be removed, or stuff like that

yes its complaining, and whining

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

when you start petitions to have stuff removed and go on and on about how stuff is useless, how classes serve no purpose and need to be removed, or stuff like that

yes its complaining, and whining

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No it's not, it really depends though, there is a difference between feedback and complaining. You just make it sound like I said, what you don't like = complaining.