In-Game music - do you like it??

I'd say I started loving XIV's music in Heavensward. I love pretty much every song in that expansion. I really loved entering Ishgard for the first time and seeing the Heavenward title splash with the city's music swelling in the background. Painted Foothills (Dravanion Forelands theme) is one of my favourite area themes in the game.

For ARR, I'd say Coil's music is my favourite. I do like Gridania's theme. It feels like coming home.

It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of players do remember battle themes over area themes. Many areas you don't really have a reason to visit again after clearing the MSQ, especially if you don't engage in Gathering classes. Lots of players probably have heard the battle themes a lot over the years because of running roulettes for exp and tomes.

I do agree that the Yanxia theme is terrible though haha.

1st you can get around the character limit by editing your post.

2 I do love pre Shadowbringers Soken. Soken loves his motifs. So, let me ask you do you like Kugane? Cause guess what it shares the same motif as Yanxia. Do you like or enjoy any of the other Othard sections? Cause again Measure of His Reach is in every single part of Stormblood. Just like Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Shadowbringers are part of most zones. Except Eulmore during the day? And in Ratika. We also love him because he is a silly man who loves knee high socks and will meme the crap out of his own songs. Maybe it's due to you still going through the story, but half the reason why we love the trial music is because they've been seared into our brains while farming mounts. Then there's Hein/Doma's theme being a homage to Cyan from Final Fantasy VI.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

I'd say I started loving XIV's music in Heavensward. I love pretty much every song in that expansion. I really loved entering Ishgard for the first time and seeing the Heavenward title splash with the city's music swelling in the background. Painted Foothills (Dravanion Forelands theme) is one of my favourite area themes in the game.

For ARR, I'd say Coil's music is my favourite. I do like Gridania's theme. It feels like coming home.

It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of players do remember battle themes over area themes. Many areas you don't really have a reason to visit again after clearing the MSQ, especially if you don't engage in Gathering classes. Lots of players probably have heard the battle themes a lot over the years because of running roulettes for exp and tomes.

I do agree that the Yanxia theme is terrible though haha.

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The problem with Heavensward is that not all of it was Soken. There's still stuff Uematsu is credited for. And you don't enjoy the one zone Soken gave us an Otamatone meme of? Dang.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

The problem with Heavensward is that not all of it was Soken. There's still stuff Uematsu is credited for. And you don't enjoy the one zone Soken gave us an Otamatone meme of? Dang.

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I like Uematsu a lot too. :)

Nope! A meme cannot make sound less grating

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Originally Posted by BlueKojiro

So here's my question for all the super-fans: do you actually LIKE the music that you end up hearing for 99% of the game (overworld themes and that one cutscene they used for every planning/suspicious conversation scene)? Or did you just forget that they exist and are rating Soken purely based on the songs that you actually DO like?

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The first time I actually heard praise for FFXIV's music, before I even played the game, was actually for Fiend in Heavensward. And the first time I personally took active notice of the soundtrack when I started playing (outside of 'oh hey that's the FFII battle theme' which is admittedly cheating) was Oblivion, in A Realm Reborn.

I think there's an important distinction in games like this between the big songs that you're actually meant to sit up and take notice of, and the more constant background music that's just playing for mood-setting and the like. Those actually require different talents, you can't just do ALL big bangers or the player will get tired of it and start noticing the repetition. In the context of FFXIV I think people generally agree that Shadowbringers' 'field battle' theme is an example of that going bad, because the song starts far too strongly for how often it's going to play only briefly. If you're familiar with the Persona series, I'd say another screw-up on that is Mass Destruction in Persona 3; the regular encounters happen far too often for a song with an abrasive opening like that to not get annoying, so even if I love the song I couldn't bear listening to it by the end. Similarly, you can't approach the big tentpole boss themes and the like from the same sort of 'audio wallpaper' approach you'd use for background music, because then the music doesn't convey the importance or tempo of the event. For an example of that failing, I would name 'most Bioware games', because I can remember maybe one song that wasn't a credits theme; they were fine, but they lacked the impact when it counted.

Naturally when complimenting specific songs people are gonna name those hard-hitting tentpole themes just because they notice them more, and credit due to Soken, that's where his greatest strength lies; when it comes time to write a theme for a specific boss or often dungeon, it's rare that he doesn't land a bullseye. But you're right that that's not the entire job description; he also has to write those more subtle, downbeat background tracks. And I'm gonna be honest, at first he was only okay at it. The songs fit the requirements of when they played, but they were very rarely all too exceptional or interesting, they were just sort of there; them being forgettably 'there I guess' is better than them hitting too hard, but it's still a bit of a faltering. I'd say the first time he made a 'background music' track that I actively noticed and recognized as good was Order Yet Undeciphered, the Azys Lla theme.

It's this more subtle side of the soundtrack that I'd say Soken improved at over time, and while I'd say there's a few strong pieces there around Stormblood, I notice a marked improvement there in Shadowbringers, where a lot of those themes for field zones, non-exceptional cutscenes actually become exceptional in their own rights rather than just 'also there on the soundtrack'.

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Originally Posted by BlueKojiro

Subjective Experience with Music in FFXIV

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For the most part, FFXIV's zone music for its overworld is like the rest of its overworld experience, rather weak and almost not there.

Its greatest strengths lie mostly in the fight music for trials and at one time dungeons(though dungeons have since become largely nothingburgers when the community complained that they wanted to hear the final boss music or a variation of it for all bosses instead of selected old boss music for the first couple of bosses from prior expansions).

Nobuo Uematsu actually did the lionshare of the game's early music, with Soken doing about 1/3rd of it up into HW or something like that. They also got other SE composers to do the odd song here or there, like how Naoshi Mizuta did the Maelstrom Command theme.

Once you've finished the storylines, you will find that you rarely spend time in the overworld, and you will come to understand the minor neglect it receives.

I will say though, for as weak at the overworld zone music is, I enjoy most of all of it buy and large. Particularly the themes in:

Upper La Noscea (Note, in ARR zones unless something's changed, you have to wait quite a bit for the music to start and most of the tracks are 2 minute pieces that stop and let silence reign more often than not)
Churning Mists
Dravnanian Hinterlands (Day time)
Ruby Sea
The Lochs
Ahm Araeng
Il Mheg
Kholusia (Daytime) (Post Story change)
Mare Lamentorum
Ultima Thule (Pre-Vocalization change)

All in all, it's easy to recognize Soken's weakness with zone music, but he has improved at it. His battle bangers more than make up for it, as well as the fact that he composed one of the best ones while he was sick in the hospital with cancer.

Note that your favorite composer has never composed overworld music for an MMO. You have to take into account what type of music a composer is being directed to compose. It's a lot easier to compose tracks for standalone games that have a few uses or plays over the course of a game, rather than a song that has to loop ad infinitum.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Note that your favorite composer has never composed overworld music for an MMO. You have to take into account what type of music a composer is being directed to compose. It's a lot easier to compose tracks for standalone games that have a few uses or plays over the course of a game, rather than a song that has to loop ad infinitum.

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So I haven't taken issue with anything I've heard from you guys thus far except this sentence.

First of all, there is no qualitative difference between MMO overworld music and non-MMO overworld music. All overworld music loops, so I don't know what you're getting at there.
Second, IS it actually easier to compose cutscene music than it is to compose looping area themes? How would you possibly know? The cutscene music in FFVII Remake, many of which are done by Hamauzu, make extensive use of leitmotif arranged in different keys and instrumentation to produce extremely specific moods, so it strikes me as odd to hear you essentially say "okay bud, that's impressive, but try making a loop next time!" which is all the more absurd considering Hamauzu also wrote several looping songs on that same game as well as plenty of looping songs throughout the XIII trilogy, and you know for a fact that his and Suzuki's music are like one of the only things people like about those games.

Anyways, I hear what ya'll are saying, but I don't think I'll ever come to the same opinion about Soken because of the hours of his worst work I've had to suffer through already. I've never had a moment like that with Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu, Masashi Hamauzu, Hitoshi Sakimoto, or any of the other greats, so for me, no matter how great some of his tracks might be, his entire track record has way too many black marks for me to put him anywhere near those others. I never had to go through a "rough patch" with any of those other composers, so I feel like that just automatically puts them on a level above Soken for the rest of time.

I guess that is what my contention is though. Can someone be considered god-tier if an unusual amount of their recently published work is genuinely terrible? I guess some people seem to think the answer is yes, but it's a hard no for me.

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Originally Posted by BlueKojiro

I guess that is what my contention is though. Can someone be considered god-tier if an unusual amount of their recently published work is genuinely terrible? I guess some people seem to think the answer is yes, but it's a hard no for me.

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I would question what you think is 'genuinely terrible' on FFXIV's soundtrack, because I can't think of one. The worst I can think of are songs that wind up kind of forgettable and uninteresting. I can assure you, if a song on this soundtrack was ACTUALLY terrible, I would've really grown to hate it over my hours of fishing, gathering, crafting and the like.

I'll tell you right now though that you're not really gaining any ground in this argument by just saying 'Soken Bad' and throwing around other names. Like, bring up actual arguments about why the soundtrack is bad; you're going against the consensus here, so you need to find something convincing.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I would question what you think is 'genuinely terrible' on FFXIV's soundtrack, because I can't think of one. The worst I can think of are songs that wind up kind of forgettable and uninteresting. I can assure you, if a song on this soundtrack was ACTUALLY terrible, I would've really grown to hate it over my hours of fishing, gathering, crafting and the like.

I'll tell you right now though that you're not really gaining any ground in this argument by just saying 'Soken Bad' and throwing around other names. Like, bring up actual arguments about why the soundtrack is bad; you're going against the consensus here, so you need to find something convincing.

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Probably my least favorite Stormblood track has to be From Mud. Though that's from a dungeon and a remix of Poison Ivy. Which wouldn't count in Bluekojiro's eyes since I said it's from a dungeon. It did grow on me while I farmed it or I tuned it out during my farm for the furniture item from the last chest. This "conversation" feels like the argument about how the game's music is all just trash cause it's not composed the same way as classical music or whatever that thread's OP kept on insisting on.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Probably my least favorite Stormblood track has to be From Mud. Though that's from a dungeon and a remix of Poison Ivy. Which wouldn't count in Bluekojiro's eyes since I said it's from a dungeon. It did grow on me while I farmed it or I tuned it out during my farm for the furniture item from the last chest. This "conversation" feels like the argument about how the game's music is all just trash cause it's not composed the same way as classical music or whatever that thread's OP kept on insisting on.

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From Mud leans into its distortion effect, which makes it a weird pick for a dungeon theme since that can kinda blend uncomfortably with clearer sounds playing over it, it can make it hard to 'figure out'; I actually really like the song, but it's an awkward fit for a dungeon. I noticed the same thing when I tried to use Echoes in the Distance for one of my videos; that song's amazing for field music since it gets the chance to stand alone and be deciphered, but it was a flop when used as backing for speech and narration, it just came out as noise.