Please don't delay Savage Raid Releases

No one should rush into savage like it is the only content in the game. Savage mode is effectively a challenge mode for people who have already completed all the other story content available and don't see value in doing crafting, housing, or gathering. The cost in effort and time vs reward is abysmal due to the tomestone gear being only 5 levels below.

Also, I like the gear in patch 5.3's tier but E8S was a freaking disaster. If I see another mechanic even close to light rampant on the final fight with a dps check that kills you if so much as one or two people mess up or miss a DPS tonic that screws up your globals outside of an Ultimate, I'm not going to go through the tier.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I don't see much of a day 1 challenge sadly. I already have my very-safe-estimate macro ready to go 1-100% and a stack of Chili Crab and Syrup standing by, so it's really just a case of doing a few rounds of the timed nodes, groundwork the mats and clicking go.

Sales are not going to be that great either, I'm surprised people have forgotten last set. Crafting is easy so most statics have at least 4+ players prepped, ready to go and far more raiders are self-sufficient.
Bots were able to crack last seasons Expert crafts on release and have had melded Aesthete sets for months so they will be able to churn out pieces from the start. I predict prices will have crashed before a week is over.



I'd be fine with that.

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I don't see it as much of a challenge as I do in terms of actually crafting the recipes; they've long been comedic in difficulty, but the sheer amount of prep, pacing, and crafting within the first few hours is what makes it slightly fun ad challenging, not to mention the theorycrafting that follows therein(e.g. you like myself have prepped some rotations, so I hazard to guess you didn't do that by just taking shots in the dark), especially if you are dealing with a large volume of orders. It's one of the few times where you see collaboration between different groups of players come together. Not to mention the amount of organization to make everything go smoothly. So this is one of the few pieces of content I'm adamant that shouldn't be changed.

It's one of the very few pieces of endgame we actually get. Sales definitely plummet, hell they start to plummet on the evening the patch goes live, then taking a true nosedive the weekend (alongside supply rates).. But that doesn't really detract from the sheer amount of people and statics that rely on crafters, which makes patch day very good for profiteering (160-200M for around 4~ hours of crafting), and a 'good piece of content', and by truly delaying 1 and not the other you remove the incentive for it. All the players will just purchase gear on the weekend when supply really starts to rocket, no real necessary need to actually collaborate or contact other players/crafters in this case (MB will meet the supply).

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I don't see much of a day 1 challenge sadly. I already have my very-safe-estimate macro ready to go 1-100% and a stack of Chili Crab and Syrup standing by, so it's really just a case of doing a few rounds of the timed nodes, groundwork the mats and clicking go.

Sales are not going to be that great either, I'm surprised people have forgotten last set. Crafting is easy so most statics have at least 4+ players prepped, ready to go and far more raiders are self-sufficient.
Bots were able to crack last seasons Expert crafts on release and have had melded Aesthete sets for months so they will be able to churn out pieces from the start. I predict prices will have crashed before a week is over.



I'd be fine with that.

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I would say color me surprised by bots being able to craft expert but nope not surprised. Short of driving away players SE cant make it hard enough or complex enough to stop bots from being able to do it.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

No one should rush into savage like it is the only content in the game. Savage mode is effectively a challenge mode for people who have already completed all the other story content available and don't see value in doing crafting, housing, or gathering. The cost in effort and time vs reward is abysmal due to the tomestone gear being only 5 levels below.

Also, I like the gear in patch 5.3's tier but E8S was a freaking disaster. If I see another mechanic even close to light rampant on the final fight with a dps check that kills you if so much as one or two people mess up or miss a DPS tonic that screws up your globals outside of an Ultimate, I'm not going to go through the tier.

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Then clearly you’re not cut out for savage. The fight wasn’t hard, but it’s supposed to be a challenge. Savage IS the only end game content this game has to offer so yeah people rush into it. It IS the only continent that yields the strongest gear (of which the gear itself is useless since SE insists on syncing content all the damn time)

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Originally Posted by Colt47

No one should rush into savage like it is the only content in the game. Savage mode is effectively a challenge mode for people who have already completed all the other story content available and don't see value in doing crafting, housing, or gathering. The cost in effort and time vs reward is abysmal due to the tomestone gear being only 5 levels below.

Also, I like the gear in patch 5.3's tier but E8S was a freaking disaster. If I see another mechanic even close to light rampant on the final fight with a dps check that kills you if so much as one or two people mess up or miss a DPS tonic that screws up your globals outside of an Ultimate, I'm not going to go through the tier.

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It's not up to you to decide what people should and shouldn't do.
And there is a very good reason why people rush first week: competitive raiding. If that's not to your taste, that's fine. But first week provides a unique challenge that will not come back for the rest of the tier, namely the race against other statics who try to clear as fast as possible without any outside help.
Even if people are not playing at world first race level, it's a unique additional challenge you only get right after content released.

Savage is not designed for people who don't do housing, crafting, gathering or really any timesink in FFXIV. It's designed to cater to a specific group of players. Just like housing isn't designed for people who tired of savage or have finished the story but for people who enjoy housing. And a big part of the savage players enjoy crafting, housing, Gold Saucer etc. quite a lot, else the demand for a one week delay wouldn't be so high.

Just read through this thread, see for yourself how many avid first week raiders would love a short delay because they are interested in all the other content the game has to offer. But only savage release "forces" them to chose and rush while every other content gets delayed so people can avoid that exact pressure.

And I don't think e8s was a disaster. LR isn't the only mechanic that wipes the entire raid if someone messes up. 2nd 14 on Ramuh is a guaranteed wipe if someone missed their spear. No way around it. Conflag is also an almost guaranteed wipe if either one of the tanks or dps messes up. In very rare cases a party was able to survive it by a quick tank LB and both healers healbotting hard, but that takes some quick reaction from tanks and healers, something you will only find in top-tier players.
E7s is a guaranteed wipe if someone misses an orb.
The only problem with LR is that it's hard to spot who made the mistake without a replay.
The dps check required some form of competency from everyone. On average, people have to play at low-mid green level. That's not unreasonable at all for the final fight of a tier. Titan had a more lenient dps check but a lot more random/ sudden movement mechanics plus more things that required awareness and quick party coordination. E8s has fewer of those, of course the challenge needs to come from somewhere. If a missed tonic makes the difference between a wipe and a kill, several people have been playing sloppy. Even without any uptime strats whatsoever, playing gaze really safe etc. you are able to clear it if people get their rotation right for the most part and don't eat damage downs like candy, including tanks and healers.

E8S was the only fight in last tier that was actually good.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

It's one of the very few pieces of endgame we actually get. Sales definitely plummet, hell they start to plummet on the evening the patch goes live, then taking a true nosedive the weekend (alongside supply rates).. But that doesn't really detract from the sheer amount of people and statics that rely on crafters, which makes patch day very good for profiteering (160-200M for around 4~ hours of crafting), and a 'good piece of content', and by truly delaying 1 and not the other you remove the incentive for it. All the players will just purchase gear on the weekend when supply really starts to rocket, no real necessary need to actually collaborate or contact other players/crafters in this case (MB will meet the supply).

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I can agree on that, I think your idea to release the gathering nodes and Normal from day 1, then Savage and the crafted recipes a week later sorts that nicely. The main issue for most people isn't just the crafting rush, it's the fact MSQ, Normal and the raid story comes along with that and you have to skip over them quickly to maximize your efficiency.
It's sort of a shame this is the only endgame we get though. I miss how indepth the theorycrafting could actually get. Crafting really needs a serious look at in general.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Also, I like the gear in patch 5.3's tier but E8S was a freaking disaster. If I see another mechanic even close to light rampant on the final fight with a dps check that kills you if so much as one or two people mess up or miss a DPS tonic that screws up your globals outside of an Ultimate, I'm not going to go through the tier.

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Definitely an issue with you and/or your team if that's the case. I don't mean that in an elitist way or to criticize, but if you're not dying 10+ times and still barely scraping the enrage at this point in the tier with easily accessible 500ilv, it means one or more members of the group have significant rotation and uptime flaws.
That's the point where you can blindly blame the fight for being too hard (when it really isn't), or you can look at who needs help in the group, how to improve damage and learn from it.

I am glad they are delaying savage raids by a week or 2. Many times i want to get into savage raiding but I wanted to finish the msq & other content first that by the time I get to it a week or two later a lot of groups have cleared it, then I'm like meh.

Also to delay salvage raids by a week or two, spreads out the content. Nobody isn't rush. Gives me a little time to understand the mechanics in the normal raid...see what i have to look forward to the salvage raids & its mechanics.

Because of time, i dont belong to any statics, & i'm new to the savage raid scene, so doing it PUG, fresh on the first day, will definitely be a learning experience!!

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Also, I like the gear in patch 5.3's tier but E8S was a freaking disaster. If I see another mechanic even close to light rampant on the final fight with a dps check that kills you if so much as one or two people mess up or miss a DPS tonic that screws up your globals outside of an Ultimate, I'm not going to go through the tier.

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Uhh...the DPS check isn't that tight on E8S. Had 4 people die in my static and we still managed to clear it with 10s left...you may want to look at who is and isn't keeping uptime.

Doesn't even need that much uptime. Think about when they first cleared this kitting orbs around the outside.

Round the outside
Round the outside.