2P Skin Color

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

I'm going to throw it out there, but fair skin for centuries in Japan has been considered a sign of beauty, I think we are talking as far back at 10th century AD. If I were to hazard a guess, if it was an artist deliberately doing it, I don't think the intention is racially motivated or an attempt to white wash a character. Japanese characters are so often depicted by the Japanese as having fairer skin than Japanese people tend to in the real world. It could well be because of this cultural difference.

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I’m sure that’s what it is. It’s not a race thing but a skin tone thing. And that would be “fine” if this was a Japan-only game. But when you’re selling to the west, I would think that they would want to be more careful, especially when this has unfortunate implications no matter the reason behind it.

I don’t think any of this is malicious, it’s just disappointing.

I suppose on the tan comments. In parts of the west, having darker or tan skin is a sign of beauty, hence so many get tans for vanity reasons. So I guess not so crazy for the Japanese to have the reverse. And it's not just the Japanese, I believe its the same in South Korea and China. Fairer skin free of blemishes.

I get that white washing is a thing, before anything thinks I'm defending whitewashing. But I also am aware there's also a cultural difference here that could be a plausible explanation.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I would think that they would want to be more careful, especially when this has unfortunate implications no matter the reason behind it.

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So let me get this straight, Japan has to bow down to western culture because some people cannot comprehend that another culture has different social constructs and ideas on race and skin tone and because they might offend someone? Oof that is a bad look. Western culture is VERY dominant globally and making every culture toe the line is insulting. I hate to say this word, but people who are offended over the Japanese concept of race and skin tone need to educate themselves. Not everything needs to be catered to x audience no matter global a franchise is. It is made by Japanese people. Deal with it. Move on.

I know you didn't bring up colonialism but it has been brought up as an argument as to why we need to be conscious of whitewashing. Wanna know one of the policies that was used? Enforcing European culture and ideas was one of the many ways that they erased identities in their colonies.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I’m sure that’s what it is. It’s not a race thing but a skin tone thing. And that would be “fine” if this was a Japan-only game. But when you’re selling to the west, I would think that they would want to be more careful, especially when this has unfortunate implications no matter the reason behind it.

I don’t think any of this is malicious, it’s just disappointing.

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I guess an oversight? I dunno, they sell all over the world, it may not necessarily be the case they're aware of all social and cultural quirks outside of Japan or outside or their neighbouring countries, its a huge world with much diversity and is not centred on the certain parts of the West like the US or UK, as not everywhere in the West picks up on it either. "Woke" culture is still a relatively new thing too, which is where the biggest voice is on these kind of things.

I can agree that more POC representation in video games is a good thing, especially as there is a lack of it and this will have been a good opportunity for it. I just don't think everything is racially motivated or has a racial significance. I'm also for understanding how cultures vary and differ from our own.

I dunno, I was just looking forward to playing the raid. I don’t think I look twice at most npcs to really care about their skin tone.

You can type in caps lock all you want, but that doesn't change the fact your entire existence in this thread seems to simply be telling people "No, you're wrong." My personal favourite moment was when you decided to call someone who is presumably black, "As bad as the Colonialist Brits". Kinda like how anyone who is against fascism is somehow as bad as them..? Never understood those kinds of statements, since it was very clear which side was the wrong side. Meanwhile, a circle-jerk occurs where like 4 people are just saying "Just stop playing", "You're making a mountain of a mole-hill", etc while people just try to talk about something that seems strange to them.

TL;DR You came into the thread to hold up a stop-sign, rather than contribute. If you don't like it here, just leave?

I heard from a reliable source that this is only the start. Soon they will remove anything short of "Irish" from the character creator and retroactively correct all player characters to be pristine creme gods. The Japanese have always been known to be the staunchest of white nationalists.

But really, who cares? You can see from the cutscenes that it's just different render.

Well this topic went downhill fast...2Ps skin colour does look lighter then normal and I can see why folks would feel like its a sleight after all representaion is important. But I am going to hold any judgment untill the raid is released. It could just be lighting and she's her useral skin tone in most of the cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by MarlyMakara

You can type in caps lock all you want, but that doesn't change the fact your entire existence in this thread seems to simply be telling people "No, you're wrong."

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Caps = emphasizing what I am saying bc as with this post you are glossing over things to get w.e high ground your seeking for. So let me get this straight me pointing out that western standards and concepts do not work in Japan is bad of me? Oh, I'm sorry I'll let you onto the coddle train and continue so you can continue perpetuate misinformation and keep yourself in your snuggy wuggy banket.

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Originally Posted by MarlyMakara

My personal favourite moment was when you decided to call someone who is presumably black, "As bad as the Colonialist Brits".

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My personal favorite is that you and them have decided I am white even tho I have stated I'm not. If you cannot find the irony of someone complaining about European colonialism and then push to have their cultural norms onto a Japanese company, then I cannot help you.

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Originally Posted by MarlyMakara

Kinda like how anyone who is against fascism is somehow as bad as them..? Never understood those kinds of statements, since it was very clear which side was the wrong side.

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Clearly you don't know which is the bad side. Your feels are greater than a group of people and their culture. I'll let Japan know.

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Originally Posted by MarlyMakara

TL;DR You came into the thread to hold up a stop-sign, rather than contribute. If you don't like it here, just leave?

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No.

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Originally Posted by Kobalos

Well this topic went downhill fast...2Ps skin colour does look lighter then normal and I can see why folks would feel like its a sleight after all representaion is inportant. But I am going to hold any judgment untill the raid is released. It could just be lighting and she's her useral skin tone in most of the cuterscenes.

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Representation is important to some crowds. It does not follow that it is important to SE or their Japanese audience, or even most of their Western audience.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

Buddy, I already hinted pretty heavily that I'm not white but you and your pal above can keep thinking that if you think it gives you a leg to stand on. We are talking about Japan, a country that has virtually NO minority group to BUILD institutionalized racism like your buddy above claimed. Did I ever say that Japan is not racist? No, I did not. But here's the thing. In Japan, you, me, the white people that are being sneered at in this thread are all in the same boat. What I am saying is that WESTERN CONCEPT OF RACE DOES NOT WORK IN JAPAN. That means terms we have coined here in the western world do not apply to the eastern world. You guys are coming in and trying to supplant THEIR ideas because of YOUR hurt feelings. I'm sorry, did 2P suddenly gain anti-black racial traits? No. That image was just had skin lightened. But as many people have pointed out in this thread ad nauseam is that white skin on a character does not equal WHITE CAUCASIAN in Japan. And quite honestly slightly tan/brown w.e is your jam does not mean that 2P is black/brown/mexican w.e you're trying to stamp her with. Yet here we are, with people failing to understand that simple concept. Do I need to make this any clearer to you?

EDIT: I'm sorry did you just come in here with frickin' Arthur Perry and equate that to why Japan began to westernize. Oh god, please tell me you're not that dense. They westernized to become colonialists in East Asia bc that is how you became a powerful country back then. Hell, they were even considered somewhat civilized for it especially after they kicked the Russian's butt in the early 1900s. Bet you never learned that, pal. But just because they took western traits did not mean that their concept of race and skin color nor many of the western norms was the same. They are very much a "Confucian" society in line with the rest of East Asia. Even now. Today. Guys, I have degrees in history and world culture. While Japan may not be my niche, you ain't gonna gotcha me with Arthur Perry nor your base understanding of Asia. Just stop. This is borderline insulting.

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That is assuming their ideas even work in the West. Like most of the world, it certainly does have a sketchy history in some regards, and there was some merit to the term in the past when laws existed to back it in certain countries, but most of what they nowadays call "institutionalized racism" is just any differences in outcome they don't like, even if there are better, competing explanations, as well as blaming all whites for the sins of a tiny percentage of whites in the past. You'd have to go father afield, to somewhere like India, as opposed to Japan, to find something closer to the concept, but that probably doesn't count, because only whitey is the devil, colonised, had empires, engaged in slavery etc... and everyone else was angelic.