We need an ilvl/gear requirement for leveling dungeons

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Originally Posted by Alleo

So on one hand you say that you dont have enough gil to simply buy vendor stuff and at the same time have enough for savage consumables, crafted gear and glamour..that does not make much sense to me. It just feels like you simply dont want to spend that gil there. (Glamour gear alone often costs much much more than a whole set of vendor gear)

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Most weeks it's just consumables. I buy, like, maybe one cheapish glam piece a month. I only get craft gear at a new tier, made by static member so I only need mats, and even then I have to save weeks beforehand.

So, in this case, it was buy food and pots for raid this week with my bank of 300000 gil, or buy some ugly, crappy white gear which will be irrelevant after one leveling dungeon. Not a hard choice.

As to the rest, I am part of min ilvl LS's; however, usually only endgame instances or dungeons with strong nostalgia value (Vault) fill.

But that's irrelevant - I've already admitted that I was selfish here. I enjoyed the challenge, but my motive was primarily faster gearing. However, I still find my choice justified. In a world of healers who won't DPS and DPS who don't know what a rotation is, I figured that my undergeared is still better than incompetence. It saved me a LOT of time, seeing as days later I still wouldn't have had the poetics for full 270, while making the Siren runs a handful of minutes slower.

It's not something I do all the time. I did make sure to get full 260+ on DRK awhile back because I'm NOT a good tank and I have paranoia when relying on unfamiliar healers.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I mean for me personally it isn't a big issue, I just craft myself a set and be done with it, but looking at the summed price I was pretty shocked at how obscene the price gets for an average player, especially for the longevity, so you may as well just incorporate better gear into the class quests and save the whole ordeal of needing to buy it, or do several days of roulette; making people feel as though they're locked out or gated from it. Feels better to me if they just remove it from the scenario, and add it integral to the class quests. Or both.

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The longevity is the main problem for many players. You simply level far to fast to worry about gearing up. 277k for a set of gear you might use twice... isn't any wonder people just dont bother...

If your level 73 say are you gonna blow a ton of gil on gear that might get used once in all your daily roulettes. Because for every other roulette that that low end gear a 100 levels lower is going to be fine.. and by the time you've done all those roulette your going be pretty dam close to 75. So another ton of gil...

It's the same at all levels of play. It's why you still see so many players at endgame without any materia slotted at all because theres literally no point investing in it when your just gonna throw that gear away next week..

It's been the same for ever basically. In heavens ward it's why people went from 50-60 in full ironworks. It was good enough and you levelled so quick wasnt worth investing in better gear that youd maybe use once...

Storm blood the same.. 60 to 70 in full augmented shore i270 never needed to upgrade because again you levelled so fast it just wasnt worth investing in gear you might use once...

Same now. And itll be the same again in 6.0. Theres just no longevity in anything and thus it's just not worth it.

Even the guaranteed drops in levelling roulette dont help because chances are your in a dungeon way lower than you anyway. I sort of think they should make the guaranteed drop level appropriate so if your 76 and the roulette has put you in the very. Have it throw a piece of 76 gear upon completion instead of some 53 junk.

But with the games longevity actually investing in gear just isn't worth it. If you keep up on time stones for example then even when patch 5.2 lands and the new eden teir comes out you wont need to invest in gear because what you have will already be 20 or so levels higher than the content and that's before the patch even goes live....

I agree with OP. There needs to be a min iLVL. To be honest I'm not clear what other issues this might bring up? If the fear is that new players won't have gear so can't progress? Then give more gear out in dungeons so they have it. Sell it cheaply in town.

Or better yet don't cap the iLvL in these dungeons so aggressively so high level players can carry the under geared ones.

I'm thinking getting booted from a group for being completely under geared is a worse experience than not being able to enter the dungeon.

I have always found it ridiculous that leveling dungeons are way more fraught with peril than expert dungeons. This is purely because of iLvL syncing and no min iLvl.

Just sad they have let it go on this long..

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Originally Posted by ElroyDrundan

I agree with OP. There needs to be a min iLVL. To be honest I'm not clear what other issues this might bring up? If the fear is that new players won't have gear so can't progress? Then give more gear out in dungeons so they have it. Sell it cheaply in town.

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Problem isn't 'new players' for the most part, it's players running old instances to level up other class/jobs. Those who know that they will out-level any gear they got yesterday by early evening. Players who can't spend 100-300K gil every two levels to be 'up-to-date'. Players who don't run dailies because < reasons > to accumulate Tomes of Poetics, or for whom Poetics can't actually get you relevant gear once you hit level 72.

If you all really want the issue addressed, getting rid of ilevel gear entirely in MSQ dungeons by assigning the exact same appropriate stats to every tank/healer/DPS in a dungeon instance (appropriate to the level of the dungeon instance) would work?

Of course, speed runs by vastly overgeared players complaining about ilevels in dungeon instances would be a thing of the past.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Problem isn't 'new players' for the most part, it's players running old instances to level up other class/jobs. Those who know that they will out-level any gear they got yesterday by early evening.

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Exactly. Especially if you're leveling entirely through roulettes. What's the incentive to buy a set of set of level 74 gear when it may very well be outdated before you even see a level 70+ dungeon?

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Problem isn't 'new players' for the most part, it's players running old instances to level up other class/jobs. Those who know that they will out-level any gear they got yesterday by early evening. Players who can't spend 100-300K gil every two levels to be 'up-to-date'. Players who don't run dailies because < reasons > to accumulate Tomes of Poetics, or for whom Poetics can't actually get you relevant gear once you hit level 72.

If you all really want the issue addressed, getting rid of ilevel gear entirely in MSQ dungeons by assigning the exact same appropriate stats to every tank/healer/DPS in a dungeon instance (appropriate to the level of the dungeon instance) would work?

Of course, speed runs by vastly overgeared players complaining about ilevels in dungeon instances would be a thing of the past.

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Except you don't have to be "up to date". Simply having a full set of the previous expansion's highest tier of gear (which is not difficult to acquire if you are at the point of levelling alt classes, the game practically throws poetics at you at every turn) will do you perfectly fine until you hit the level cap of the current expansion you're in. Especially if (as is often the excuse given) you only level via roulettes and don't usually get put into 71+ dungeons. Even a 71 white set will serve you decently enough for quite a while. People aren't complaining about that.

Don't come into Holminster Switch with unupgraded shire gear or (heaven forbid) ironworks gear and waste the time of everybody else there who bothered where you didn't.

Frankly, it's a failure of how levelling roulette works combined with the lack of ilevel restrictions. Levelling roulette should favour dungeons within a certain range of the lowest level party member (which would mean they'd at least get some moderately appropriate gear). A group full of level 71+ shouldn't be put into *anything* lower than Stormblood's dungeons. If you don't have the ilevel to enter Ghimlyt Dark (i360, very easily attainable), it stands to reason that you shouldn't be able to enter Holminster Switch (which drops i390).

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Problem isn't 'new players' for the most part, it's players running old instances to level up other class/jobs. Those who know that they will out-level any gear they got yesterday by early evening. Players who can't spend 100-300K gil every two levels to be 'up-to-date'. Players who don't run dailies because < reasons > to accumulate Tomes of Poetics, or for whom Poetics can't actually get you relevant gear once you hit level 72.

If you all really want the issue addressed, getting rid of ilevel gear entirely in MSQ dungeons by assigning the exact same appropriate stats to every tank/healer/DPS in a dungeon instance (appropriate to the level of the dungeon instance) would work?

Of course, speed runs by vastly overgeared players complaining about ilevels in dungeon instances would be a thing of the past.

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Or you know, require folks to have the proper gear, if the problem is as you suggest players leveling alts, then they know how to aquire the gear. Or as I suggested relax the iLvl sync so those who have gear can carry those who do not. Or also as I suggested have dungeons just crap out gear so folks can run a dungeon and gear up 1/2 their slots... I'm not sympathetic to those that know better and jump in with crap gear. I am sympathetic to new players but my suggestions would solve the issues.

The reason folks enter the leveling dungeons woefully under geared is because they can.

So we got a scaling earring. People complain that people don't do the training ground thing(can't really remember the name). It gives gear, why couldn't it be scaling like that earring. You get people to do the practice stuff you want. With trust type system you could specific design encounters for players to get. Maybe increasing skill or at least the hope. Putting gear that is good for a long time. Could be healer, tank, dps, ranged dps, and caster. Allowing them to each work on mechanics they are likely to see.



Now I know what you are saying, "Oh no the crafters". The game has way to many items when do we start hearing excuses from the devs about that. Delete a large portion of items from 1-50. Give crafters a few glamor crafts, remove some of the sets from dungeons. Dungeon sets don't generally last long enough to be worth farming for stats. So anyone farming a whole set is probably about the look. Making them more likely to pay, then run Brayflox for the tenth time to get the last piece of that set.

The solution is so easy. And no its not minimum ilvl. Its a little bit of awareness. To make people see that it takes maybe only a few days of even only running 1 msq roulette dungeon per day to get the poetics for i260/i270 gear as soon as you complete the past 3.0 quest, and i390/i400 gear once you complete the last 4.0 quest. And with secondary jobs, you can do some pre planning too to get the poetics gear well before you get to lv. 60 or 70. And so on you can pre plan a little too for the i120/i130 phase at lv. 50 though this may be a little trickier if its your 1st class to 50. Stop rushing, start thinking.

Keywords: pre-planning and poetics.

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Originally Posted by Ifrinne

The solution is so easy. And no its not minimum ilvl. Its a little bit of awareness. To make people see that it takes maybe only a few days of even only running 1 msq roulette dungeon per day to get the poetics for i260/i270 gear as soon as you complete the past 3.0 quest, and i390/i400 gear once you complete the last 4.0 quest. And with secondary jobs, you can do some pre planning too to get the poetics gear well before you get to lv. 60 or 70. And so on you can pre plan a little too for the i120/i130 phase at lv. 50 though this may be a little trickier if its your 1st class to 50. Stop rushing, start thinking.

Keywords: pre-planning and poetics.

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Preventing players from joining an instance they are woefully undergeared for is a solution. Telling them to spend poetics on gear while not restricting their access is not. It's not a case of people *not knowing*. It's largely a case of *not caring*. Because the system does not give them a reason to care (they are not restricted from queuing for wearing a full set of their racial gear and their starting weapon). The game as a whole does not make them care (gear checks are laughably nonexistent in the majority of content and the game never tells them that their gear is inadequate for their current level). The community is...reluctant to hold these players accountable to make them care.

Hence why the response to "Dude you are really undergeared for this place, you should go and upgrade with poetics at <location> or buy some white stuff from the mb or <location>" is met with "It's just a levelling dungeon who cares"/"It's just levelling roulette"/"You don't pay my sub"/etc. It never matters how much you mince words. How "kindly" you phrase it. Very few of them care. So you have to *make* them care.