BRD 5.0 Feedback, Suggestions, and Requests

Creativity is admirable, but big nope on all counts. AoE is not the problem with Apex, and we hardly need a Bane. Raging is one of the few nice things we have going, I wish it were stronger honestly. And doing that would be a better way to give us a steroid than self-BV, which is dubious for reasons well-explored in this thread. And we don't want Barrage to start mis-aligning.

Some people like Wide over Nock, but personally I'm a fan of a 12y cone > 5y AoE any day. If Wide was 8y like Rain, then maybe.

Circling back on the Raging point, buffing Raging is another option on the list of ways they could increase numbers while making the Bard kit reward better decisions. Especially if coupled with a change to a more flexible Apex Arrow.

I remember pre-launch I was really hoping they would have the foresight to make Raging i.e. 20% for 15s or something (along with expecting BL charges and hoping for a flexible Apex), but alas.

The thing with Apex arrow i'd like fixed is the range, why not make it 25yd? Interrupts the flow of bard so many times for me; that and the fact it's on GCD.

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Originally Posted by Cetonis

I feel like that sort of layout is a little too ambitious. We probably shouldn't expect to see MP re-added as a job mechanic in a patch. The most we might see is a lazy Foe re-add where they just leave it on an island.

The thing with their low-player-skill concern is, that much of what's being asked for in OP would be more low-skill friendly, not less.

Apex being usable at 20 gauge for bad damage is not low-skill friendly. Putting a charge system on EA and/or BL would be pretty low-skill friendly as accidentally delaying those skills would no longer be as consistently punished.

While such changes might also introduce certain skill expressions like aiming to 3x EA a WM or something, that kind of good-decision based skill gap is almost wholly absent from Bard right now. It's about 98% execution at the moment, and lower-skill players' struggles with that core execution is what's always been the heart of the Bard skill gap to begin with.

And in making some of these changes, SE could make that execution easier, which they should presumably want. In exchange, they'd be adding a modicum of decision points, which is what OP and I and many others want, as players who have lost that element of Bard that they really enjoyed.

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Yeah, we're almost totally stuck with everything right now until a major update like an expac or something, but it's also a major list of QoL adjustments/changes. MP is too self-sufficient though, IMO, and it's basically making sure to use LD between 65-85% MP to keep a sufficient supply of MP throughout most encounters/situations, so it's largely unneeded. OFF-topic end. It's just something that might be more interesting and impactful for lv60+.

And, yeah, not having to make minor decisions like EA or RA makes it a little more boring

Pre-pull: Traubadour (soul voice charge), 200 sv > pull: Foie (35sv usage cost), AA (55 sv), DOTs while weaving OGCD, Minuet, IJ, proc minne, minne (35 sv, party wide heal buff), MB, BV (double to 30% song effect boost)....AP, half song cooldown CD, AM auto-buffs everyone (1minute), minuet, standard rotation management, and a completly different miseries end (shared with DNC, or last dance as it's own mega buff ability specifically for their partner) after collecting enough finale stacks.

Anything to make it feel more like everyone is actually affected by "the power of music" than feeling totally inconsequential

Some more thoughts about Bard I’d like to add for feedback:

Overall I think The number of support skills we have isn’t really an issue, I’d like more personally (even just Foe Requiem) but it’s not like we have nothing currently to work with. But Minne and Paean feel so ‘meh’, Battle Voice is strong but kinda boring, and Troubadour is essentially a role skill.

in terms of suggesting they add MP management, my intention for that is more around how readily available the songs are.

I really liked in 2.0/3.0 being able to say, ‘ok healers need mp’ and sing Ballad, then ‘ok I’ll increase damage’ and use Requiem, then after your MP recovers for a bit you could sing Ballad for a few ticks for healers (not saying you’d actually use your songs like this, just for examples sake). I know that the damage reductions meant you didn’t actually have that kind of freedom, but at least it was there in concept. With everything on cooldowns now, the support you can provide is largely dictated by said cooldown and not your own personal planning.

Of course, that kind of system would require a huge change to the playstyle and would just put off the people who do enjoy it. Plus it’s very difficult to balance.

So, while I’d like them to consider having Bard’s support abilities work more in the style they initially did in 2.0/3.0, it does seem like the kind of change that would be difficult/impossible to implement without some big changes. And then, those changes might satisfy people who played the job before like me, but for everyone else it would just feel like the job had changed too much. And that wouldn’t be fair on them either; people who would like the job to more like it is now shouldn’t have to suffer for those who liked it more before. There should be a fair middle ground between the two to satisfy everyone.

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Originally Posted by Cetonis

Some people like Wide over Nock, but personally I'm a fan of a 12y cone > 5y AoE any day. If Wide was 8y like Rain, then maybe.

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Largely because the range of WV and Grenade shot were usable in situations where there is like zero tank control (dead tanks, fates, treasure chests, aetherochemical facility, overworld enemies) and it's better to just run in a big circle, in which bigger is better to a degree as most mobs are physical melee, to reduce their auto attacks and DPS them down with wide volley and RoD while also making the BLM really jealous. Mobs move way faster now so it's not as effective in dungeons as it is in fates which are still reduced due to the range of QK

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Overall I think The number of support skills we have isn’t really an issue, I’d like more personally (even just Foe Requiem) but it’s not like we have nothing currently to work with. But Minne and Paean feel so ‘meh’, Battle Voice is strong but kinda boring, and Troubadour is essentially a role skill.

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Right. For all the "bring back Foe" calling, I think that can be cleanly translated to "we want interesting support skills", and Foe is just a placeholder for that notion.

As I mentioned at the outset, they could make BV resemble Foe via charges or some similar flexibility aid, and then any returned Foe would be redundant (barring a mirror concept in the vein of what I posted earlier here).


I think most people would like it if the role skill abilities were differentiated, it's clear that SE is super nervous about gaps in defensive utilities but I can't think of any historical reason why they should be. Like yeah, permanent -10% INT blew up job balance back in the day, but the difference between 180s / 30s vs. 120s / 15s vs. 60s / 5s or something is nowhere near that scale.

On Minne and Warden's, I think a stumbling block is that it's hard to change them in a way that doesn't just lead to us having two buttons that do close to the same thing - i.e. if Minne were made into Mantra, now we just have two party wide defensive things, or if WP were made into an Excog or Palisade or something, how we just have two solo defensive things. Design-wise you kind of don't want that sort of redundancy, as at that point you should probably just remove one button and buff the other.

5.0 and BRD STILL doesn't benefit from their own Battle Voice.