About the Emperor [Major Spoilers for 4.4]

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Originally Posted by Remedi

I honestly see parallels to Ishgard and frankly Ishagrd comes out in the worst since as far as we've seen only Solus knew the truth while Ishagrd had essentially a secret police and the head of the clergy keeping the popoluce under constant check, not to mention they spun that lie to keep themselves appear holy and rigtheous.

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Given that at least the two guards (blue and red) in the throne room are also aware and not very surprised by Solus, and we have ample testimony about Garlemald ramping up its secret police activities (Frumentarium et al) during Varis's reign from the Prima Vista crew, I don't think the distinction is that wide.

Especially considering that one NPC on the Prima Vista who also views every new revelation from the Ivalice raids in a favourable light to Garlemald. (He's also the one who tells us about critics being disappeared under Varis's regime, so he's not exactly a blind supporter.)

the 2 guards are probably ascian warrios in disguise. Probably a reference to the ultima daemons of FFT if I have to use a wild guess.

I wouldn't say that the use of the secret police is really that unfounded from Varis, heck we are waging a war of shadow on him now and frankly even before 4.4 since Lolorito has spies in the empire which warned him about the Agrius also apparently Thancred can move around the empire easily. The empire is idd it's own worst enemy yes, buit let's not forget that we are at war

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Originally Posted by Remedi

the 2 guards are probably ascian warrios in disguise. Probably a reference to the ultima daemons of FFT if I have to use a wild guess.

I wouldn't say that the use of the secret police is really that unfounded from Varis, heck we are waging a war of shadow on him now and frankly even before 4.4 since Lolorito has spies in the empire which warned him about the Agrius also apparently Thancred can move around the empire easily. The empire is idd it's own worst enemy yes, buit let's not forget that we are at war

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I prefer the idea I read on these forums somewhere. That red and blue are Zorn and Thorn. Of course they can still be Ascians.

Hmm, wonder what town we will get as a hub if we are going to play a shadow war in an Empire that doesn't want us. Zozo maybe?

As for redeeming the empire. I don't think we will do this. Mostly because of the timing. Sure it would be easy to kill the Ascians and put Varis in charge to make an empire that actually works for stability and not against it.
But we are at the third expansion. We can't do away with our antagnoists now.

True that but Celia and Lettie from Tactis also wore red and blue outfit and they were ultima daemons in the service of Marquis Elmdore and since the many references to the ivalice alliance I thought of that first, but Zorn and Thorn aren't a bad catch either (If they are ascians they can also fuse together).

I do agree that this arc is coming to a close too early, however there are many possibilities that can be explored like that the empire at the end of the next expansion still remains a power in the world, but not a friendly one. We could simply remain in a state of checkmate.

"Thanks for helping me get rid of my grandfather and son. Now fck off or I'll send my armies to Eorzea."

Actually a good way to tie into the next expansion (well next next) is to Varis, or whoever takes the throne, asking you to prove that Eorzea and Garlemald can work together by going to [new area in 6.0] and do [plot of 6.0] for him as a favor.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Celia and Lettie

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Damn, damn, double damn. I had forgotten them entirely and playing FFT so long ago I didn't even remember their colours (I was thinking, like, pink and black). That's another very fitting couple of characters. That's a pretty great catch.

Well their color is blue and magenta (which reminds pink), but usually magenta is the base red in coloration

I feel like the "twin dooms" are indicative of this conflict being a war where the outright victory of one side or the other will lead to an overall terrible event. I wouldn't be surprised if the crystal deposits in both Garlemald and Mor Dhona have something to do with this, but note that there is yet a distinction between the government and the Ascians. That, there can be peace if the interlopers were removed.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

not to mention they spun that lie to keep themselves appear holy and rigtheous.

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That's only part of the truth, really. While it's true that the lie was originally conceived in order to cover up the dishonorable actions of the surviving members of Thordan's disastrous campaign, and to justify their place at the top of the social hierarchy due to their "heroic" actions against the "evil" dragons, that really only applies to the original generation. After that, the lie ballooned to encompass all of Ishgard, to assure all of the people of the city that the misery they were suffering in the endless war was undeserved; that Ishgard was the innocent victim of evil monsters. And in a very real sense, that was the truth! Even just a single generation away from the original vile acts, the folks being oppressed by Nidhogg were innocent of any of the crimes he was persecuting them for.

It was the opinion of present-day Thordan (as well as his predecessors) that revealing the truth about WHO STARTED IT would spread unnecessary doubt among the citizenry. At this point, a thousand years later, "who started it" was a moot point. Ten years later, or a thousand years later, Nidhogg was hardly going to accept "I'm sorry, we were wrong" as a valid reason to stop his murder machine. In all likelihood, it would cause morale to plummet, and possibly even start a civil war, which would essentially spell the end of Ishgard, who could barely hold off the dravanian horde even with everyone strong and united.

It took a very special and specific set of circumstances to avoid that fate - basically, the WoL stepping in to both slay Nidhogg, and to use their status as the hero who accomplished that deed help mollify the masses when the truth came out afterward. I don't think that things would have ended so well if the great lie had been revealed ten or a hundred years earlier. While the lie started out as a way to glorify the original murderers of Ratatoskr, it quickly became necessary to bind the nation together against a relentless foe.

As for Solus and his lie - yeah, the fact that he was the sole secret-keeper makes the citizens of Garlemand victims in the scheme, as well. Even so, the citizenry certainly seemed to jump at the nationalistic opportunity to declare other peoples to be "savages" worthy of conquest. It was quite reminiscent (and likely deliberately written so) of the way the German people, crushed under the debts levied against them at the end of World War I, rallied around the idea of being "ubermenschen" - a "superior race" who had the right to rule over the lesser races (particularly Jews). At this point, I'm not even certain that the truth coming out would dissuade them of the idea of Garlean supremacy. (Not that I'm suggesting that all citizens share that viewpoint - but those that do are certainly well-represented in the Garlean military!)

The thing about Solus' lie is that it's individual components are truths. It's only when he combined them all in a specific way and left out certain information that they're a lie.

Truth: Primals drain the land of aether. Lie: The Burn is what happens when primals drain the land of aether.

Truth: The faith many religions are based on is enough faith to summon a primal. Lie: All religions result in primal summoning. Another Lie: Religious faith is the only kind of faith that can summon primals.

This sets up the atheist Garleans as the only people who aren't capable of summoning a primal. And gives them the duty to eradicate the other religions so that they don't summon primals. And most religions are integral parts of other people's cultures...

Of course, it ignores the fact that primals don't drain the land of aether so quickly something can't be done about it. And the fact that most religions never have managed to summon a primal. And the fact that enough faith in anything can summon a primal.

So you've now got an entire nations' worth of people who have a lot of faith in their Empire's ideals and none of them think that could be a potential problem...