Confused about people's obsession with open world raids/dungeons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WiiSam

those items are in higher demand so competition is intense.

---

Really? From what I see the beastmen camps are fairly empty for the most part and if my group ever runs into people dead set into camping a specific key we usually move to another chest with loot our group wants, share the spawns if the other group is agreeable, or just outclaim them the old fashioned way.

But the key-camps are in no way (At least on Melmond) crowded and overcamped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WiiSam

Coeurl drops a gold key or something. But that's hardly the point, you're still competing for lurkers or whatever mobs dropthe keys.In the strongholds it is just ONE mob that drops a certain key. Remember also those items are in higher demand so competition is intense. Shposhae is usually quite empty.

---

Strongholds are not dungeons.

I think something like a VNM-type (FFXI term) or Abyssea system would be kind of neat as an alternative to dungeon progression. Loads of spawnable NMs all over the place that get popped with key items, currency gained for killing them, buy items with currency. I imagine it would be slightly weaker gear than the current top-tier stuff, but it would be a good way of gearing up and filling those slots, if there is a good quantity of NMs dropping a really wide range of different equipment for different purposes. Would be good if they spawn a little bit more interestingly too rather than just clicking a '???' on the floor and it phasing in, maybe killing a bunch of nannygoats would make a big angry daddy goat appear to take you down.

I don't necessarily want to compete with others for enjoyment, but I don't want to venture out into this world they're building and be the only one for 232524 miles as everyone else is sat in town letting the content finder do the work. To me that just makes the world feel dead.

What I'm hoping for is that we get more dynamic content in future (maybe overly wishful thinking) like Hamlet defence that encourages people to go out into the world and fight beastmen/enemies off to protect the cities etc. I'd like some roaming NMs too, that can spawn in various zones in loads of different places, and require a huge amount of people to take down, perhaps for a currency reward at the end or something. I'd love to see XIII-style adamantoises wandering about stamping on people.

Edit: I should add that we're all comparing with WoW, which is a valid comparison, however they're actually trying to get people out of the cities in the next expansion with some sort of half-assed phased dynamic event system. They've recognised that it's a bad idea, along with most of the next gen MMOs that are making use of modern technology (hello GW2), and now they're trying to get away from the 'theme park' style. Yet, here Yoshida is pushing the game that way about 6 years too late.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jynx

just outclaim them the old fashioned way.

---

This is the problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

Strongholds are not dungeons.

---

Huh? Not literally, but the strongholds are defined as open world dungeons/raids, by SE.

Instanced content kills the living breathing world. Period.

Have multiple exits, entrances, stumbling upon someone by chance of fate, getting saved by strangers, the thrill of competing on a claim, all that is eliminated by instanced content.

Dragon's Aery v2.0.

Can't wait til the bots show up! (I don't actually condone boting or like it, but if you think you can have competition for claim out in none-instanced areas, and not have bots show up, you're a little crazy.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WiiSam

the strongholds are defined as open world dungeons/raids, by SE.

---

well, yeah, open world raids, but I would have to say prove it about them defining it as a dungeon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coglin

well, yeah, open world raids, but I would have to say prove it about them defining it as a dungeon.

---

I honestly hate when people misunderstand over simple things like this. Ok sorry dude they aren't "dungeons" but the concept we are taking about is a confined area, whether it is indoor/outdoor in design, that is very highly demanded content that if done in an open world manner will foster vicious competition and frustration and is an annoying time sink. A confined area that holds trash mobs, mini bosses, and a boss that all have a chance of dropping highly desired loot. These "dungeons" or "raids" should be instanced and not let out to the open world.

The compromise: have open world roaming NMs like we do now (save for the strongholds). Odin roaming is great. It will give people the thrill of claiming over another and people can watch etc. its epic, its adventurous. But an entire dungeon? Nobody is watching, the spectators can't get there, the only spectators are your vicious competition that will make your life hell. It is fun to compete over a boss because you can watch an EPIC fight. But why am I /sitting next to you bored and frustrated while you kill a Natalan Sentry waiting for you so i can TRY to claim it next time. Nothing EPIC about that.

Another compromise, create an outdoor area that you have to fight through as a group to get into the actual instance. Not something anyone can just run through individually and get to the entrance alive. Something that seriously takes a group to get through the trash to enter. There you will run into people at the entrance, you will run into other groups helping each other get through quicker etc then once you get in, its an instance, no competition, no zerging, you and your team can strategically accomplish your tasks and feel good about it.

Mr. Wii, why are you swaying away from your original post? You know, saying, "They suck" as your intro. Instances have there place in the world, but they shouldn't be like a virus and spread everywhere. They should make few instances BUT have them very unique and crazy, like a maze. When all you have are instances, the game gets dull fast. What you end up doing is "speed runs" once you figure it out. It's like, gah, I don't wanna run through everything every time. Soo, if they are able to make instances that are random, I'd be down for that. Take that maze idea. Everytime you go in, it's a different maze that you have to figure out, with random bosses at dead ends that one shot you, mobs around every corner. That right there is like an infinite amount of fun. So what I'm getting at is instances should be rare and AMAZING> common and dull.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WiiSam

Coeurl drops a gold key or something. But that's hardly the point, you're still competing for lurkers or whatever mobs dropthe keys.In the strongholds it is just ONE mob that drops a certain key. Remember also those items are in higher demand so competition is intense. Shposhae is usually quite empty.

---

So competition is bad, gotcha.... so dumb.