A reason Final Coil is a better raid tier than Creator Savage is T9 requirement

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Memorizing a 100% scripted fight =/= skill. Memorizing isn't a skill, it's just following a checklist. An actual skill check would be a fight that not only involved a ton of mechanics, but equally difficult mechanics, requiring the party to actually adapt to the boss' actions as they came out rather than the easily exploitable alternative.

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Isn't that kind of like saying that the worlds fastest speed runners aren't skilled? I think you're taking a bit away from it TBH. Yes, 100% unscripted fights may require skill, but a fight can still be difficult while scripted and not be skilless.

I think it's mainly the theme that made Coil better.

Alexander felt too zany with the goblins. You can't take them seriously as antagonists. It felt like a saturday morning cartoon show.

I quit for a few months and recently came back.

If I had to beat the old tier that no one plays anymore before I could do A9s? I probably would have just quit again. And I consider myself, one of the "above average" raid players that OP is talking about and gating the content would keep me and other like me from getting back into the game.

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Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

T9 was a gate to get into final coil was a great design that improved the average player skill across the board in those dungeons in 2.4 and onward.

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I absolutely agree with you, OP. I know many people that would agree with you too, too bad they got perma'd by the auto moderator system on this forum. another thing the T9 gate did was make content last longer. Higher demand to do older stuff encouraged vets to step in and "farm" while helping other clear the content after its been nerfed.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

A big reason why raiding in heavensward sucks is all of the gear you get from it is essentially useless outside that raid tier. You don't keep it - instead, you throw it away for new crafted gear on patch day. That's --- stupid and a fundamental problem with the 3.x system. If they continue it into 4.x then they really have no idea wtf they're doing.

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preach brother.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

I quit for a few months and recently came back.

If I had to beat the old tier that no one plays anymore before I could do A9s? I probably would have just quit again. And I consider myself, one of the "above average" raid players that OP is talking about and gating the content would keep me and other like me from getting back into the game.

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Really not trying to be rude, but if you are an above average player, you would have no problem getting up to speed w/ echo and 250 gear. SE needs to decide which they want to keep, skipping tiers or crafted gear. both of these are creating a blackhole where content dies immediately on the following raid cycle whereas in 2.x it didn't.

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Originally Posted by DakenBrunel

Really not trying to be rude, but if you are an above average player, you would have no problem getting up to speed w/ echo and 250 gear. SE needs to decide which they want to keep, skipping tiers or crafted gear. both of these are creating a blackhole where content dies immediately on the following raid cycle whereas in 2.x it didn't.

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That doesn't even make sense.

Isn't finding 7 competent like minded individuals to do raids with the issue here? You think gating people will improve the average skill for better groups yet your suggestion is for me to find 7 competent like minded individuals to do previous tier? Old content that all the competent players already moved on from?

So what then? I get carried by echo and i250 gear? Then whats the point of the gate then?

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

Isn't finding 7 competent like minded individuals to do raids with the issue here?

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No, the issue here is that SE does too much to give entry to something that was originally designed to be rather difficult.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

You think gating people will improve the average skill

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I do, actually. It encourages people to actively try and study fights / their jobs mechanics. I'd like to believe that Zurvan Ex would be just a bit different if SE had left the content gates like binding coil.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

=snip=

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With everything you mentioned by way of "finding and relying on 7 other competant players" to catch up to clear content/catch up to speed, it is very easily remedied by making friends with people you find to be skilled players. When you make friends with those people in this Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game, you can eventually team up and complete tasks. You can even start a group or be apart of a larger group of competant players and create your own sort of community; be it a Linkshell, free company, discord, myspace, guildwork, or (insert online community hubsite). All online video game raid content is designed with friends/guilds/clans/groups-of-likeminded-individuals in mind.

TLDR; online games are social games; if you are unwilling to make beneficial social-bonds, then an online based rpg's raid content might not be for you.

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Originally Posted by RezPls

Linkshell, free company, discord, myspace, guildwork,

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You being on Gilgamesh should know that the server has many of these in place including a very reliable Raid discord for the entire Aether DC. So I don't get what the problem really is here when you have so many of these sub groups to cater to end game raiding.

Gating doesn't even make sense considering how small the raid scene. Seem to me that people just want to be a special snowflake in an already tiny community.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

*snip*

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Is there anything from stopping you hitting this button http://puu.sh/tXYPX/a43aff2533.png on your discord and making your own community of players and potential friends?

The gating really is a parallel to experiencing all the content within the game, as well as requiring players to have a certain competency level. I apologize if you feel that the ability to interact with people or do mechanics while performing your job, shouldn't bar you from experiencing raid content. But those are all staples of the MMORPG genre.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

Gating doesn't even make sense considering how small the raid scene. Seem to me that people just want to be a special snowflake in an already tiny community.

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I personally, want to see the raiding scene left alone, and stop making nerfs to content that isn't designed for everyone. Normal mode was designed to give everyone a taste of the raid tier, savage doesn't need to be cleared by everyone, I thought that was the original premise.