Required Class/Rank failed - Can we have Optimal Rank and Favoured Class back?

I've seen a few other threads about optimal vs. required, and honestly, I don't even see a real basis for argument. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these are the two groups (with a few minor exceptions, I'm sure):

Group 1 likes the freedom of wearing whatever they want whenever they want, specifically when stats don't matter as much or at all.

Group 2 hates seeing Group 1 wearing "inappropriate" gear.


I'm all ears for arguments as to why we should cater the system to Group 2...


Now, I've seen a few people say that the system was confusing, not obvious, etc., and that's a fair point. But there's no reason that we can't find a way to keep the optimal system and simply make it more clear to the user what's happening. It's not an argument for removing the optimal system, just refining it.

@ OP whine more on WoW please. Final Fantasy is not known for catering to infants. Gear Restrictions were in XI and now in XIV. both make/made perfect sense. If you dont wanna be a gimp buy/craft new gear. If you hate manually equipping gear stop being lazy and take 3mins out of your ever so busy day and make a macro like the smart people do :p.... macro swap or no swap ftw! haha...

sorry for the blunt rude way of saying that but ... omg whine more? gets annoying i do believe this game is rated T not E and posts like the OP's seem like a 10yr old wrote it just whining that their gear is now unusable... BTW a 18 dagger on a 15 gla means your a gimp and always has lol wear optimal get the full effect its always been more beneficial even since CE launch...

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Originally Posted by AamesxDavid

I've seen a few other threads about optimal vs. required, and honestly, I don't even see a real basis for argument. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these are the two groups (with a few minor exceptions, I'm sure):

Group 1 likes the freedom of wearing whatever they want whenever they want, specifically when stats don't matter as much or at all.

Group 2 hates seeing Group 1 wearing "inappropriate" gear.


I'm all ears for arguments as to why we should cater the system to Group 2...


Now, I've seen a few people say that the system was confusing, not obvious, etc., and that's a fair point. But there's no reason that we can't find a way to keep the optimal system and simply make it more clear to the user what's happening. It's not an argument for removing the optimal system, just refining it.

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Yeah, the break down of the groups is incorrect.

Group 1: You have a group who likes having defined gear for classes, with restrictions based on class or level. It makes sense to them and they have no problem purchasing or crafting the appropriate gear for the current level of whatever class they are playing.

Group 2: You have another group who wants to purchase one set of gear and use it for all of their classes ad-infinium, until they can replace it with r50 gear for the appropriate class. They seem ignorant to the fact that now, stats DO matter.

I'm all ears for arguments as to why we should cater the system to Group 2.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

I'm all ears for arguments as to why we should cater the system to Group 2.

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Well, based on this thread and his last thread that I linked to on the last page, we should cater to group 2 because gifthorse says so. That's pretty much all there is to his arguments.

we shouldn't they should just find a game like pong and stick with it lol

and stats make ALL the difference now.. they are the big defining difference between a group that say "the ogre is hard" (we all know its a joke even more so now) and the team that goes into the raids and 35mins later is out with new Batraal stuff for giggles :p

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

Group 1: You have a group who likes having defined gear for classes

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Still happens with the optimal system...

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

with restrictions based on class or level.

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And the purpose of that restriction?

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

It makes sense to them and they have no problem purchasing or crafting the appropriate gear for the current level of whatever class they are playing.

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Good for them, they can still purchase class-specific gear using the optimal system. You see, the optimal system still heavily favours Group 1 while not restricting Group 2. The required system restricts Group 2 while providing no real benefit to Group 1, other than the fact that everyone will be forced to play the way they prefer to play themselves.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

Group 2: You have another group who wants to purchase one set of gear and use it for all of their classes ad-infinium, until they can replace it with r50 gear for the appropriate class. They seem ignorant to the fact that now, stats DO matter.

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Ohh, so Group 2 is just lazy and stupid? Here I thought we could have a real discussion. The problem is that even with the optimal system, your ignorant, fictitious Group 2 would still have lowered stats, hindering their performance/progress.. so what do you care if they're ignorant? You just proved my breakdown of the groups - you don't care about how much "sense" the system makes, you just want to herd all of the morons into the "proper" way of playing the game. It doesn't make them any less ignorant, it just hides their ignorance. And what's good about that?

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

Yeah, the break down of the groups is incorrect.

Group 1: You have a group who likes having defined gear for classes, with restrictions based on class or level. It makes sense to them and they have no problem purchasing or crafting the appropriate gear for the current level of whatever class they are playing.

Group 2: You have another group who wants to purchase one set of gear and use it for all of their classes ad-infinium, until they can replace it with r50 gear for the appropriate class. They seem ignorant to the fact that now, stats DO matter.

I'm all ears for arguments as to why we should cater the system to Group 2.

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That or there are people in group 3, who want gear to be cross class/level so that they can look pretty - to which I say don't keep the convoluted favor system, just implement an aesthetics tab.

The bottom line is that stats DO matter now. Not wearing gear near your level nerfs your gear, just like you were nerfed when you weren't wearing favored gear. The problem is that with favored gear, sometimes you don't realize you're wearing the wrong gear (could be you just switched classes, and left something out of a macro, or you just can't tell that there is better gear out there for your rank because the favoring system is so unclear), or you go searching in the market, and it is not clear to you what is best for your rank/class, because there are five different things that are near your level that favor your class, but really only one is optimal (this happens mostly with DoH and DoL). There is also the fact that it is much easier for the devs to balance combat, and gear with the class and stat restrictions.

Which is easier to understand at a glance:

Belt A: (requires: gladiator level 30. Str +5 Dex +3)

Belt B: (Favors: Gladiator, Pugilist, Botonist, Weaver Suggested level: 30. Str +5 Magical Defense +3 Gathering +3)

Combine this with the fact that there are 3-4 other belts that suggest the same or a similar level, that also are recommended for your class, and 4 other seemingly random classes.

Picking gear should be as simple as "I'm level 30, I'm a gladiator, I want gear that's for a level 30 gladiator". There could be more options for people who are interested in stat crunching, which we have with Materia and the rare NM/chest drops.

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Originally Posted by AamesxDavid

Still happens with the optimal system...



And the purpose of that restriction?



Good for them, they can still purchase class-specific gear using the optimal system. You see, the optimal system still heavily favours Group 1 while not restricting Group 2. The required system restricts Group 2 while providing no real benefit to Group 1, other than the fact that everyone will be forced to play the way they prefer to play themselves.



Ohh, so Group 2 is just lazy and stupid? Here I thought we could have a real discussion. The problem is that even with the optimal system, your ignorant, fictitious Group 2 would still have lowered stats, hindering their performance/progress.. so what do you care if they're ignorant? You just proved my breakdown of the groups - you don't care about how much "sense" the system makes, you just want to herd all of the morons into the "proper" way of playing the game. It doesn't make them any less ignorant, it just hides their ignorance. And what's good about that?

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How can we have a real discussion when your Group 2 were nothing but whiners who don't approve of other peoples gear??

You make a childish statement, and they try to flip the tables when I point it out to you in a painfully obvious way. Get over yourself, there is no way you can have real discussion with your bait and switch tactics. Good day sir, and grow up.

OPTIMAL RANK OH GAWD D:!? nooooooo make it go away

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

sometimes you don't realize you're wearing the wrong gear (could be you just switched classes, and left something out of a macro, or you just can't tell that there is better gear out there for your rank because the favoring system is so unclear)

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Which, as I've said before, isn't a reason for getting rid of the optimal system, but simply making it clearer.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

Which is easier to understand at a glance:

Belt A: (requires: gladiator level 30. Str +5 Dex +3)

Belt B: (Favors: Gladiator, Pugilist, Botonist, Weaver Suggested level: 30. Str +5 Magical Defense +3 Gathering +3)

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I'll see your heavily-biased examples and raise you a more balanced one:

Belt C: (Favors: Gladiator Suggested level: 30. Str + 5 Dex +3)

Does this not suit your:

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

"I'm level 30, I'm a gladiator, I want gear that's for a level 30 gladiator"

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Now, I wouldn't be surprised if right now you're asking "well then what's the point?" And in a preemptive response to that, I ask "If this is how the favored system worked, what would be the point of changing it to required?"