Why Avoid Parry?

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Originally Posted by Ralvenom

That's kind of the point, isn't it? We do, because PLD can't perform as well in raids. If the other tanks can defend just as well (remember, block only affects physical attacks) in the current meta, but also do more dps; why bring a PLD? The solution is 2-fold:

1. make the next meta such that there's 1-2 fights where it's not only required for tanks to "turtle" BUT is also fun;
   This would force tanks to bring a Fending set for those fights.
2. bring MT PLD dps up slightly, as the changes in 3.1 were a good step but not enough.
   Every tank should feel like they can perform at the same level as every other tank, which is still not the current case.

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I don't see that as a soluntion, it's butter knife to spread things around and make them the same. By equalizing the tanks, you are simply homogenizing them. The focus on damage, damage, damage makes the game, and tanking in particular quite one-dimensional. Sure SE could tailor encounters to each tank, but that would be counter productive because each time they do it, the other tanks will fell left out while the third one takes advantage of their chance to shine.

I think they need to add more dimension to encounters and tanking in general. Otherwise why have PLD at lall?

Hmm, what effects trigger off of parry anyway? I noticed that this game, like many others, tend to have lots of "trigger" mechanics that add complexity to combat and character building that help widen what many characters aim for. Perhaps to improve parry, the stat and scaling (at least not alone) isn't the problem but maybe that parry itself isn't intrinsically linked into the different classes and builds like other stats are...like what if healer barrier skills added on the healer's parry rating to that of those he buffs for a time? Or what if parry triggered a strong OGCD effect or something to aid in deflecting more attacks?

DRK has low blow and reprisal which trigger off parry. And, those two things coupled with the reality that DRKs can MT without grit is the reason why they are on par or better than WARs in terms of DPS.

So unless they change those skills or give the other tanks parry-based skills (which few would prefer -- we don't need more skill bloat and homogenization in that form is actually bad homogenization), they can never really buff parry.

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But what about trash pulls, or bosses that have frequent auto-attacks? You're listing one example, but that example is why cooldowns exist. Parry seems more to exist for helping to just reduce incoming damage in general; as a tank, isn't any little bit of help we can give to our healers worthwhile?

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Cooldowns also exists for Trashpulls

I don't know if mentiond before but parry reduces your blockrate for palas and with a good shield you can block more than 20% of damage. Every parry could be a possible block for palas so i would drp it if i see it.

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Originally Posted by Legion88

I don't know if mentiond before but parry reduces your blockrate for palas and with a good shield you can block more than 20% of damage. Every parry could be a possible block for palas so i would drp it if i see it.

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Huh... It's the complete opposite. Block rate is calculated before parry. If you don't block, then you might parry. It's not the other way around.

This entire thread has basically gone full circle and settled on the same old argument that my gigantic reddit/forum post from a month ago was talking about - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...eta-feels-off-.

The OP is technically right - parry is the only stat that affects our mitigation, and if the focus of a tank is to mitigate as much as possible, shouldnt we be stacking it as priority? The same argument is true to a degree with Vitality vs Strength - if we're there to not die, then surely stacking the "don't die as much" stat is the favored option.

There's no disputing that a level 60 Tank who has stacked parry on every single item, wears full fending, and stays in Shield Oath/Defiance etc will be easier to heal than one who avoids all parry and stacks Crit/Det, wears full slaying and tries to stancedance into DPS stance as often as possible. Of course the first tank is easier to heal.

The question though is the -degree- in which it is easier... and it's not much. The way the game works, you just don't have constant incoming damage or spike damage of the magnitude where the parry/vit/shield tank's overall toughness makes any real difference to the success of a group. However, the strength/crit/det/sword tank will be pushing 30-40% more DPS than the turtley tank... and in -most- cases nowadays, that extra dps is just far far more useful.

No one is FORCING tanks to avoid parry or focus dps 100%, but the hard encounters the game currently has basically -suggest- it, and groups where a tank cannot contribute a meaningful amount of dps simply have much more trouble clearing it. There's no disputing that Parry/Vit makes a tank easier to heal, the fact of the matter is that it just DOESNT REALLY MATTER with the content we have given how dependant everything is on proper cooldown rotations.

By all means play the parry stacking "brick wall" tank, and in 4man dungeons and content where DPS checks arent especially important then the success of a group wont really be affected - heck, if your healer is undergeared or new then it might actually improve the chance of success. But for any meaningful difficult content tanks simply cannot ignore the fact that the benefits gained from Parry are virtually nothing, but the benefits gained from increasing the damage output can have meaningful improvement on group success when it comes to pushing phases, skipping mechanics, and hitting hard enrage timers.

Just because DPS do -more- damage than tanks, doesnt mean that tank damage isnt worth maxing too. And until the tanks that are advocating parry/turtle/defensive style tanking over a style that tries to prioritise damage output truly realise just how important to success tank DPS can be, it's unlikely that the dps-is-important crowd will be able to change their mind.

What it will take is a wipe on Living Liquid due to not hitting the hand-split DPS check by half a percent, or a wipe on Thordan because the bladedancing knights didn't die fast enough.

It seems like a lot of people forget a Parry/VIT stacking tank can also stance dance and optimize their DPS rotation while maintaining higher defenses.

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Originally Posted by Gooner_iBluAirJGR

It seems like a lot of people forget a Parry/VIT stacking tank can also stance dance and optimize their DPS rotation while maintaining higher defenses.

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Yes, they can. But as soon as you start stance dancing and optimising DPS, you're accepting that DPS is important. And as soon as you accept DPS is important and sacrifices can be made, you realise that you -never- need the minor mitigation boost from stacking parry, and you don't need a huge cushion of Vitality (just enough to be comfy).

As soon as this realisation is made, that 100% mitigation/vit focus isnt needed, then you start crunching numbers to work out the best balance of pushing your DPS whilst not dying.

And the best balance is to stack Crit/Det instead of Parry, and use as much Strength as you can instead of Vit.

Having +400 Parry on your gear is roughly +10% parry chance (figures quoted above said about 40 for 1%). 10% parry chance is very roughly 2% less physical damage taken. That 400 Parry could be 400 crit, which I believe has the same percent return per point, so that's +10% crit chance (and a slight increase in crit damage).

So when deciding between Crit and Parry, you're weighing up at the large values something like a 2% physical mitigation boost vs a 5% dps output boost for equivalent stat budget. That's the major reason Parry is rubbish, even outside of its unreliability on mitigating tankbusters.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

But in general, don't tanks want to do whatever they can to take less damage? Sure, you can't rely on Parry to save you, but won't it help to smooth out incoming damage when there are a lot of hits coming in? And to that end, isn't Parry then the best stat a tank can get?

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Of course and i also want to sit at 20k in hp but community says no. You keep hearing stuff like tanks get kicked for stacking VIT gear or people leave the duty.

The adjustments to tank gear in 3.2 can't come soon enough.