Wait so all you care about is crafters buying the finished product and not the mats!? ;) it shouldn't matter who buys the finished product at all. Lmao Hell people on my friend list that don't craft buy the mats and have me craft them cause it's cheaper for them. Should they keep walking too?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
I buy mats all the time so crafters and gatherer get money from me all the time. If all you care about is the money being made off the finished product and not the mats then I'm lost at why you think omni crafters don't contribute the economy. The people that really don't contribute to the economy are the DOW/DOM only people they don't really do not thing for they economy but they want to stop omni crafters? For a good economy you need as many people contributing as possible. At the moment it's the omnicrafters are villains with evil mustache while the lazy or lack of effort crafters have their pitchforks out on said omnicrafters' lawn demanding the same benefits but less work. All while the gatherers quietly making a killing in favors and base mats with DoW/W on the sidelines laughing waiting for the new welfare gear to come out.
So Specialist Recipees are in the game.
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11-08-2015, 12:33 AMRanzan
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11-08-2015, 12:42 AMNalienYou mean the ones farming stacks of Dhalmel skins and selling them to me on the Market Board? The ones buying the gear from me off the Market Board? Pretty sure they're contributing... More so with the upcoming materia changes and increased in crafted gear strength...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranzan
Omnicrafters effectively reduce the demand for finished goods... They can produce all the goods themselves. They can produce them for their friends to boot. Now, there is nothing wrong with helping your friends of course, I'd certainly encourage it (it's a MMO, after all), but that is what Specialist recipes should address. Having a single person as your go-to guy, for all your crafting needs, takes a lot of demand for items away from the economy. Even if (when) SE makes the finished goods worthwhile, demand for them is still going to be hindered if anyone with an omnicrafter account/friend can effectively get anything and everything made for them...
Honestly, who are the people really hard done by with this change? Who are the ones who benefit? People keep saying that the pro-Specialists are greedy and just want less competition so they can amp up prices, but that is a double edged sword. If I ramp up the prices of Weaver goods, because I have less competition with Specialist recipes, then someone who has Armorer as a Specialist does the exact same thing. It is essentially a zero sum game, I might make more selling new fancy robes, but I'm going to be spending more to get new fancy armor. In fact, I'm actually going to be spending to get that fancy armor, because I certainly wont currently buy armor from someone when I can make it for considerably less. Other crafters are actually going to have a purpose now, as will my Gil, because buying materials was not me spending Gil, it was making a profit... Now I might actually have to work on affording something, rather than just constantly accumulating Gil... -
11-08-2015, 01:02 AMRanzanThat's the thing they only really put stuff in the economy. They supply I can't argue that but they rarely have a need to buy anything for the simple fact welfare armor is in the game at max level. Plus the other thing with mats are the retainers. I bet Gil that's where a lot if mats on the MB come from cause who doesn't send them to get mats that sell? (funny thing my retainer is out getting me dhalmel skins while typing this lol).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
The one stop shop person will still exist even with these recipes (alts). Now even lower pool of people will be on the AH. So no this will not get more people to craft. It's just going to be a couple of people in each market dominating them cause of less competition due to recipe lock outs. -
11-08-2015, 01:16 AMNalienWell that's just the thing, SE seems to be moving away from the welfare armor thing, at least somewhat... Stronger crafted gear in 3.2 was a big cause for excitement among my circles, as was materia on tomestone/raid gear, since that effectively gives materia a stable market (and thus the gear people spiritbond to obtain it), rather than giving it a stupid gimmick like the Sphere Scroll...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranzan
I think the point is, far less people are going to bother with alts... Not everyone in Final Fantasy XI had alts, personally I just had Woodworking (and was working on Alchemist before I quit, because that new gear looked awesome (hoping it finds its way here the same way Ares did) and simply never going to appear on the AH... 110 was probably why I quit, actually... That was horrendous...) and I knew nobody with an alt for every craft... Similar thing will happen here, some people will have alts, which they've probably already got set up from Desynthesis, but they're in the minority. Omnicrafters themselves are already in the minority I think, I shouldn't really be able to sell crafting gear so easily if they're not...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranzan
The issue with less crafters, I think, is separate issue, though it certainly doesn't help Specialist recipes, I guess. The main issue there is how SE set up crafting to require all of them leveled, they claimed Specialists would fix that, but it wasn't the case sadly... If Specialists actually did mean you could just level Weaver, without needing all the other cross-class skills, then I think we'd see a lot more crafters. There are plenty of people out there with a few crafts leveled that aren't going to contribute to the market, because they can't in a significant way without leveling everything. If Specialists addressed that issue, I think we'd be golden.
Like I said earlier, I perhaps disagree with how they're doing Specialist recipes, but I agree with the general concept. I think the biggest issue with crafting in this game is that omnicrafting isn't really optional, it's basically required. Specialists were meant to address that and they didn't, I think the optimal solution would be to have Specialists grant a boost to stats, making crafting generally easier, but also making it easier for Specialists to hit new Craft/Control tiers. Then Specialists get a "head start", but omnicrafters can still work towards everything, likely purchasing from Specialists to speed up the process. Specialist skills would still need adjusting, because the existing ones really do not replace cross-class ones, but I think generally that would be a better system for Specialist "recipes". -
11-08-2015, 01:34 AMshanian
every job contributes to the market, in a way or another. IF 3.2 really makes crafter gear better then all crafters will be happy (... well except culinarian... )
Desynth was only bad because they did not balance out what every class could get.
Specializing system is not bad, or may not be bad in theory. will just depend on what they actually lock behind it if its just gear or gear and mats, we cannot really complain or praise it until we actually see how it goes. supply and demand will set the prices.
i'm a omnicrafter, and while its nice to be able to make everything i may need for myself i also know that, if i had not been able to do so, i would have probably spent a lot more money getting stuff out of the MB, wich would have helped others.
Alt's will always exist. specializing will not change it. but getting that alt up and running to have the full acess to everything is a real pain, not that many people will be up for that. -
11-08-2015, 03:03 AMViDare
Can we stop for a moment, people on this thread keep saying that DoW/M arent barred from any content like crafters are because they get the chance to gear up which is false or did people forget min ilvl requirements?
At best you can only Eso up 1 or 2 classes and the new Thordan Extreme and Void Arc are min iLvl 190 supposedly. So that means you can only take 1 or 2 classes into it unless you really spread out your Eso gear. The easiest obtained armor outside of Eso is Alex and full Alex gear + Rav weapon still puts you at 189 with upgraded Law ring so that bars you from taking those jobs into Void Arc or Thordan.
So kinda like how people can't specialize in all crafting classes you can't fully enjoy any DoW/M class without making sacrifices that hurt your other classes. -
11-08-2015, 04:06 AMGysonThat's a very poor comparison. A crafter can not craft higher tier recipes without improving their gear, just as a Dragoon can't do higher tier dungeons without improving theirs. That balance already existed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ViDare
If you want a more accurate comparison, we should be saying that *regardless of your level and/or gear's ilevel* you are only allowed to visit dungeon-X with a maximum of three combat classes.
Heck, what if you were only allowed to own a maximum of three job soulstones for combat classes? Which three jobs are you going to pick? This is better for the game, right? Less carbon-copy Dragoons running around out there. Only those players serious about the Dragoon class would pick it as one of their three jobs. Might help to cut down on the number of Dragoon jokes.
Maybe we should have specialist skills for combat classes too while we're at it. Can't have everyone being an omni-adventurer. -
11-08-2015, 04:31 AMcgbspenderWhy not ? It's not like there is is a single in this world mastering them all. Specialization is something else. Your point sounds completely offtopic to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyson
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11-08-2015, 04:57 AMRanzanno that's a good comparison cause both have the same function and both have exclusive skills tied to them. You can have all job stones at once but you can only have 3 specialist stone at one time even thou they have the same fuction. So yea I agree sit it up where you can have only 3 job stones and to switch it cost 480 eso. I bet people wouldn't like that at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by cgbspender
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11-08-2015, 05:07 AMGysonNot at all. Whenever I'm convincing friends to try out this game, the concept of being able to do everything on a single character and not waste time building up "alts" is hugely appealing to them, every time, without fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by cgbspender
For players with a strong interest in crafting that concept is no longer true (not unless you're willing to instead "waste time" throwing scrips away on swapping souls back and forth). If the same were true for combat classes as well.. well, I honestly doubt many players would be happy about that.
However, I'm sure if we try hard enough we can come up with a few inane reasons of how it's better for the game. "Why do you need to be a White Mage *and* a Monk, Honinbo? Just rely on friends, or make an alt.. this is an MMO after all.". :rolleyes: