3.1 PLD Changes

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

LOL good thing I quit my paladin, If they kept the potency as it was, it would have helped alot. 210 down to 150, thatss a BIIG damage nerf to it for such a minor threat move, I feel they don't know what to do with paladin for this xpac,

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How is that a nerf? Taking it of the gcd with only a 15s cooldown is a huge buff for a skill that most people only used once every three rotations at the most.

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2. No longer breaks your combo chains.

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Shield Swipe didn't break combos.


Edit: I would still like to see a enmity increase on Shield Swipe.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

How is that a nerf? Taking it of the gcd with only a 15s cooldown is a huge buff for a skill that most people only used once every three rotations at the most.

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It will greatly improve Paladin's parses by a good bit. Since their combos are no longer getting haggled by the spell that reduces their TP. People don't realize that now they can always use their chain moves without thinking about it like before because they have the TP for it now.

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Originally Posted by Shining_Tiger_Excalibur

Sorry about lying guys, this update is just too much bullshit for me to NOT say something.

Shield Swipe since expansion has been a DPS loss the more consecutively you use it. It's only remaining purpose was for pacifying enemies in dungeons to mitigate some damage. THAT'S gone now because it's an ability with a 15 second recast time. The damage has been reduced so that means FUCK ALL for threat unless the threat multiplier is bumped up HEAVILY (even at 210 potency the threat it granted you was sketchy at best.) Goring Blade and Royal Authority more than made up for what Shield Swipe lacked, even more so now....

People who say this is a buff are outside their own mind right now if they think it is.....

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It has no GCD. It is "free" damage with an amazing effect. It is also free hate and enmity too.

Even taking your lowest damage attack "Fast Blade", which is 150 potency.

That is 300 potency and double threat enmity (just because your using two attacks) in that GCD.

It is a huge buff, and you would have to be pretty stupid if you think its not. ;)

It also no longer interrupts your combo chains, which means even more damage + threat.

So, even your weakest attack makes this a 90 potency increase from where it used to be.

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Originally Posted by Shining_Tiger_Excalibur

As compared to using Bulwark to be able to spam it...........we can't do that anymore, and even when we could have it was a DPS loss......

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Now you can spam Shield Bash more, it has the same TP cost as Overpower from Warrior. If they made Shield Bash an AOE attack I would switch classes immediately. Lol.

Spamming one RNG attack over and over does not sound like a good thing to me...

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

It will greatly improve Paladin's parses by a good bit. Since their combos are no longer getting haggled by the spell that reduces their TP. People don't realize that now they can always use their chain moves without thinking about it like before because they have the TP for it now.

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Sorry about lying guys, this update is just too much bullshit for me to NOT say something.

Shield Swipe since expansion has been a DPS loss the more consecutively you use it. It's only remaining purpose was for pacifying enemies in dungeons to mitigate some damage. THAT'S gone now because it's an ability with a 15 second recast time. The damage has been reduced so that means FUCK ALL for threat unless the threat multiplier is bumped up HEAVILY (even at 210 potency the threat it granted you was sketchy at best.) Goring Blade and Royal Authority more than made up for what Shield Swipe lacked, even more so now....

People who say this is a buff are outside their own mind right now if they think it is.....

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

LOL good thing I quit my paladin, If they kept the potency as it was, it would have helped alot. 210 down to 150, thatss a BIIG damage nerf to it for such a minor threat move, I feel they don't know what to do with paladin for this xpac,

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Like others have said this is a buff. Any skill that goes ogcd is a buff even if it's potency is reduced. It is flat out dps/emnity increase for plds when they are mting. Which pld needed extremely badly. Overall a lot better news then yesterday, then just giving us a very vague answer that pld will get tp changes. The Shield Swipe change is "not" just a tp change SE. But well I am a little bit more happier now. Still not perfect, but happier.

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Originally Posted by Shining_Tiger_Excalibur

Shield Swipe since expansion has been a DPS loss the more consecutively you use it.

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And now it isn't anymore ... that is what you call a buff.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

And now it isn't anymore ... that is what you call a buff.

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As compared to using Bulwark to be able to spam it...........we can't do that anymore, and even when we could have it was a DPS loss......

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Originally Posted by Shining_Tiger_Excalibur

As compared to using Bulwark to be able to spam it...........we can't do that anymore, and even when we could have it was a DPS loss......

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and now we are looking at a possible 300-600 extra potency per minute, when pld is mting. It's a good thing. Before Shield Swipe was a dead skill, now it is not.

Yea it's good. Not the kind of change to Swipe I was hoping/expecting for, but this is good.

Free 150 potency every 15 seconds.. Not bad not bad.

The reason I didn't expect a change like this (moving Swipe OGCD) is because Swipe is a level 30 ability. So this big of a change is something that is felt immediately upon getting your PLD soulstone.

I just might have to switch to one of my alts for a bit to lvl GLD/PLD and see how dis does @ lvl30

edit: although it does further embellish competition between pld/drk for the MT role. But I suppose that would happen no matter kind of change Swipe was given

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Originally Posted by Shining_Tiger_Excalibur

People who say this is a buff are outside their own mind right now if they think it is.....

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IT IS A HUGE BUFF.

Shield Swipe is now OFF THE GCD. Before it was ON the GCD. The 210 potency was a DPS loss to use - you were replacing a move that could have had much higher potency. Now you use it between your other moves and it's FREE DAMAGE. Free damage with extra enmity.

Your standard Goring/Royal/Royal 9 GCD rotation has an average potency of 251-256 per GCD depending on skillspeed (due to goring clipping). Let's say it's 250 rounded down. So 250 potency every 2.5 seconds from abilities. 100 Potency per second roughly. Circle of Scorn and Spirits Within both do roughly 10 potency per second averaged over their cooldowns. So currently a Paladin is doing around 110-120 potency per second, plus auto attacks, plus sword oath AA procs (20 potency per second roughly).

Shield Swipe can now be weaved in between these every 15 seconds for 150 potency, so an average of 10 potency per second extra.

That's what, 8% increased potency from skills? That's huge. This change is a BIG DPS BUFF and BIG THREAT BUFF to Paladins who are able to block (so no change when offtanking or tanking non-blockables like A4).

To say anything else is to show massive misunderstanding of paladin mechanics. This looks on paper to upwards of a 5% increase to paladin dps when MTing, and a larger overall threat increase. That's significant.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

Yea it's good. Not the kind of change to Swipe I was hoping/expecting for, but this is good.

Free 150 potency every 15 seconds.. Not bad not bad.

The reason I didn't expect a change like this (moving Swipe OGCD) is because Swipe is a level 30 ability. So this big of a change is something that is felt immediately upon getting your PLD soulstone.

I just might have to switch to one of my alts for a bit to lvl GLD/PLD and see how dis does @ lvl30

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I'm with you about not wanting this to be the exact change to Shield Swipe; being able to use Bulwark while being attacked by 5-8 enemies in a dungeon and allowing myself to use both Bash and Swipe in an alternating pattern to reduce damage was an amazing feeling. I've sat down and done some math regarding recast times, potencies, and situations in which this change will benefit Paladins. I have to admit that I overreacted more than a little bit and I most sincerely apologize for that. Caution should still be exercised though.

This change will without a doubt be beneficial to us in an 8 man raid environment assuming nothing has to be pacified (it's late and I typed "silenced" instead,) because this change means we have to explicitly rely on it to boost damage output.
The drawback is that now we can't prolong seeing a cast bar on an enemy in a dungeon by 10-ish more seconds and then also be able to stop it for another 10 seconds as well.

In raids Paladin will be just a little better; in dungeons, we'll be just a little worse now.