Think Dark Knight will have any HP-sacrificing abilities, for Solo or Off-tank roles?

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Originally Posted by Asierid

Yeah, because the healing factor of IB for WAR back in 2.0 worked so well.

Any sort of ability that requires you to take damage first in order to regain said HP is a bad tank ability to begin with. Reactive abilities in tanking is terrible and never works.

Also, DRK was always a DPS. You could get away with HP sac abilities as a DPS, but not as a tank. If there is such an ability on DRK as a tank, they will already be worse off than the other roles and SE will have learned nothing from the whole WAR debacle of 2.0. (Which wouldn't surprise me).

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Not necessarily. Its perfectly fine to sacrifice a bit of "tankiness" for a bit "DPS" as long as they still have enough "tankiness" that isn't too "complicated". One of the problems is that hardcore raiders tend choose the least complicated setup even its not the most optimal.

Reactive abilities are a great idea especially if they offer higher rewards. Defensive CD are used reactively already, WAR is just far more strict than PLD but isn't anymore rewarding, which is the biggest issue between the tank jobs right now. The problem with the old IB is that this game relies too much on surviving single hard hits and the old IB does almost nothing against that. Anything that isn't single hard hits relied almost entirely on the healer rather than the tank.

I don't have problems with them trying out new things and then changing it if it doesn't work. I don't really have issues with how they did the WAR issue, I much rather have them try new things and change it if it doesn't work than have them just use things that they know works and end up making all tanks too similar.

How about Sacrificing Life to gain mana and damage reduction?

Skill, off GCD:
Reduces max health by 25%, can restore up to 50% mana. You gain damage reduction based off mana restored.

Buff:
Reduces max health by 1% every 3 seconds. Restores 1.5% mana for every art used.



These would be cool abilities.

I don't want to just copy Warrior as the lifetap tank. DRKs should be Manatap tanks.

When a DRK's health goes below 0, they do not die and instead take mana damage.

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Originally Posted by PenutButter

One of the problems is that hardcore raiders tend choose the least complicated setup even its not the most optimal.

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is the other way around .... hardcore raiders go for optimal setup over anything , even if that means going 4 of the same job ...or 1 tank and risk wiping until they got it right

and drk isnt going to sacrifice hp to get the same benefict pld and war get w/o going low hp

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Originally Posted by Asierid

Yeah, because the healing factor of IB for WAR back in 2.0 worked so well.

Any sort of ability that requires you to take damage first in order to regain said HP is a bad tank ability to begin with. Reactive abilities in tanking is terrible and never works.

Also, DRK was always a DPS. You could get away with HP sac abilities as a DPS, but not as a tank. If there is such an ability on DRK as a tank, they will already be worse off than the other roles and SE will have learned nothing from the whole WAR debacle of 2.0. (Which wouldn't surprise me).

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Worked (and still works, as more spells were Just added in recently) in the first 3d MMO, Everquest. If 989/Verant/SOE/Daybreak can figure it out. I'm sure SE can.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=357
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...tml?spell=4062
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...tml?spell=2892
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...tml?spell=5333
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=10285
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=15178
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=19331
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=25607
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=25629
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=28693
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=28721
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=34720
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=34739
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=43646

In EQ's raids, its much worse about tanks being one or two-rounded down than in FF. So HP decreasing abilities can be dangerous. However the benefits outweigh the costs and that's what makes them viable. As for the tanking thing.. SKs have had those abilities.. as you can for 16 years. For all of 16 years they have been tanks. They've been modeled after the original DK concepts.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Worked (and still works, as more spells were Just added in recently) in the first 3d MMO, Everquest. If 989/Verant/SOE/Daybreak can figure it out. I'm sure SE can.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=357
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...tml?spell=4062
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...tml?spell=2892
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...tml?spell=5333
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=10285
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=15178
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=19331
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=25607
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=25629
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=28693
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=28721
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=34720
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=34739
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...ml?spell=43646

In EQ's raids, its much worse about tanks being one or two-rounded down than in FF. So HP decreasing abilities can be dangerous. However the benefits outweigh the costs and that's what makes them viable. As for the tanking thing.. SKs have had those abilities.. as you can for 16 years. For all of 16 years they have been tanks. They've been modeled after the original DK concepts.

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http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Reaver
http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Lich

Don't forget these!

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

or you know, people could not be giving information out. just a thought.

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True, though in the past concerning video games, long silence usually indicates trouble. They could be saving it up for one big announcement, but I'm usually pessimistic in general so don't mind me. :p let's keep speculating until we get some info. Nothing else to do but bitch about RMT, showing vanities, and the like.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Reaver
http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Lich

Don't forget these!

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Those were from EQ2 :p

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Those were from EQ2 :p

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I know but they are cool!

Lich would be the perfect tank stance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LandricFrey

True, though in the past concerning video games, long silence usually indicates trouble. They could be saving it up for one big announcement, but I'm usually pessimistic in general so don't mind me. :p let's keep speculating until we get some info. Nothing else to do but bitch about RMT, showing vanities, and the like.

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we get new info often, we got some when benchmark released a couple weeks ago, and are getting some more this week during the live letter

Um, one thing people are missing about EQ1 and EQ2's design for Shadowknights is that classes were given a very "all around" purpose.
Most fights only required a single tank, maybe some off tanks to handle adds. EQ1 especially had a habit of giving out spells like candy, eventually reaching a very real issue of spellbooks being too full, more than 10 years ago.
Then after they found their feet, they found that there was a need for the tank classes to have some damage versatility due to the damage sponge nature of bosses.
XIV doesn't have this issue. It's a much more focused game that builds towards a role. Sacrificing HP to deal damage would be suicidal, though sacrificing MAXIMUM HP, as sort of a reverse Defiance, IS possible.