White Mage vs Scholar - Why is White Mage lacking?

6 lustrates on 6 people? It'd be quicker to just cure III =P

Seriously though, SCH single target HPs is a little dependant on the rest of the group not being low enough to suck embraces from your intended target. T13 phase 2 after Rage of Bahamut is a perfect example of this issue. On SCH I don't want to waste charges at that point, preferring to save them for the flatten/breath later on, as well as a potential clutch save for megaflare. As a result, even whilst mashing an embrace macro, keeping the MT up is surprisingly rough. At that particular point it's noticeably easier as WHM purely because of how unruly EoS/Selene can be.

Stuff like T5 and T9 was always the opposite, no one else was usually low hp hence the feeling of 'SCH = single target kings'.

I'm sure it's been said plenty over the past nine pages, but WHM is a raid healer first, tank healer second. That's not to say that they are bad at tank healing (they're not bad at any aspect of healing), but more to say that they excel at raid healing. They play very similarly to Holy Priest in WoW:

• Keep Medica 2 up in times of constant raid damage
• Keep Regen up on several targets, pre-casting it shortly before they take damage if possible
• Cure III in times of high-to-severe raid damage, assuming people are stacked enough, Medica-spam if not
• Pre-Stoneskin on targets who are about to take high-to-severe damage
• Cast Cure II in an emergency situation, or if the Freecure buff is about to wear off
• Cast Cure on players who need topping off that Regen will not provide

Honestly the only thing I want is for Shroud to scale. It's pretty much going to be required with the expansion on the horizon.

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Originally Posted by Thistledown

So according to you, being able to split burst healing on up to 3-6 targets is less control?

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25% is burst heal? lol, on 6 stacks with lustrates back to back, why would anyone spread that with only 25%?
both classes can burst heal in terms of a single target. Raid wide scholar can't even compete with a whm..
6 lustrates are 25% x 6 with full stacks (intervals) > benediction.
Cure III Instant healing > Succor spam + fairy regen (intervals) again with less control. (I wouldn't even call this a burst)

i dont even.
if that's still not clear yet you can start asking yourself why a whm gets aggro like crazy over a scholar....

Burst isn't just about power; speed is a factor. SCH achieves superior burst on single targets by being able to weave Lustrates and Embraces between GCD heals.

WHM raid healing power is undeniably higher, and they are more efficient at raid healing in terms of actions required to get the job done.

As for aggro, the answer isn't simply that WHMs have overall greater heal potency (though they do); it's that Galvanize effects conveniently don't incur healing aggro, and the fairies have their own enmity rating :P

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Burst isn't just about power; speed is a factor. SCH achieves superior burst on single targets by being able to weave Lustrates and Embraces between GCD heals.

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Sadly you can't consider Embrace as a factor since you can't put it on full manual.

But yes, I agree that, generally speaking, SINGLE TARGET burst healing is something SCH is good at, this is why they are often considered tank healers.

Considering the amount of AOE burst healing needed in FCoB tho, I can hardly understand how people can even think about WHM being subpar.

A lotta people trashing the OP, who is just voicing his concerns/desires. One to three word responses are not constructive and deter from the OP's message.

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Originally Posted by Mister-Wonderful

WHM is fine.

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Your contribution to the discussion, bottles my mind.

@OP: I appreciate your comments but would ask you to consider that the WHM is more of a "straight up" healer; a walking bandage. While SCH is more of a first aid kit; there's more in there than band-aids and neosporin.

If you are truly min maxing, both healers can play both classes, period.
Some encounters 2 whm could be better, some 2 sch, usually (in most existing content) 1 of each is ideal.

never mind, I forget anyone who matters already understands this point already.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Sadly you can't consider Embrace as a factor since you can't put it on full manual.

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As an off-GCD heal (for the SCH, anyway) it's certainly a factor. Full manual would be nice as an option, but keybind spam generally works :)

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Burst isn't just about power; speed is a factor. SCH achieves superior burst on single targets by being able to weave Lustrates and Embraces between GCD heals.

WHM raid healing power is undeniably higher, and they are more efficient at raid healing in terms of actions required to get the job done.

As for aggro, the answer isn't simply that WHMs have overall greater heal potency (though they do); it's that Galvanize effects conveniently don't incur healing aggro, and the fairies have their own enmity rating :P

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It's not even about healing potency, the reason why SCH doesn't have much control is because once they fail to manage their stacks or clip the embrace right before the next attack in it's pretty much over, and when they're done using all their stacks and more heavy incoming damage takes place, there is no way a scholar can manage to salvage anything with adlo spam, because even then Galvanize has a delay of taking effect after the heal lands. WHM can sustain their heals with much control over a scholar, it's so obvious that it drains their mana like crazy, hence, it's balanced. Also, don't forget the pet is infinite on mana reserves for a reason. keywords, again, intervals in time or installments.

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Originally Posted by Minorinz

It's not even about healing potency, the reason why SCH doesn't have much control is because once they fail to manage their stacks or clip the embrace right before the next attack in it's pretty much over, and when they're done using all their stacks and more heavy incoming damage takes place, there is no way a scholar can manage to salvage anything with adlo spam, because even then Galvanize has a delay of taking effect after the heal lands. WHM can sustain their heals with much control over a scholar, it's so obvious that it drains their mana like crazy, hence, it's balanced. Also, don't forget the pet is infinite on mana reserves for a reason. keywords, again, intervals in time or installments.

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This is why you don't fail to manage your stacks properly and don't stop spamming your Embrace keybind.

I do understand what you're getting it, but I think you might be overstating the problem. The fairy may not be 100% responsive in the way that the player character is, but it's also not wildly ADHD and prone to running around doing nothing even if you fail to control it to the best of your ability. Also don't forget to factor in the decent probability of Adlo crits during a "burst" healing effort and the fact that the fairy can and will crit its heals on top of that.

SCH has plenty of control if you're doing it right. Paying attention to the effect of your heals, your shields, and the fairy's heals and adjusting on the fly is just how its done. I don't feel remotely uncontrolled as either SCH or WHM.

WHM is not any more controlled, but it is more "predictable" in the sense that you can sit there and heal in large chunks, even if almost entirely dependent on your character's GCD, expecting more or less the same result over time. The main challenge with this chunk healing aside from being largely GCD-bound is that A) any overheal is useless since it's pure HP; B) as you noted, MP will not last; and C) WHM healing aggro is serious business since none of its healing power is diverted to shields or supplemented by a pet.

WHM is plenty powerful and undeniably more efficient at raid healing, but it doesn't stack up to SCH's single-target healing potential in any practical way.