Myth Message being used to excluded players

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

If you think you're entitled to join a farm party without clearing it, that's hilarious. Go build your own 'farm' PF consisting of only people who claim to have had the boss to 1~5% and then tell me how well you do.

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Funny, because less than a week ago I cleared Shiva EX with a party with 6 people who got the clear achievement and the party was described as a "Semi Learning party" It took a few attempts to clear, following that it was farmed without fail 6 more times. So that "FARM" party consisted of people who had just come straight out of a "learning" party. So in this case we did perfectly fine and better than most farm parties who disband after one wipe. Furthermore after the first clear one tank left and a new tank joined which also got the achievement clear on our next clear.

So this clearly disproves your theory that anyone who doesn't have a million clears cant beat content.

Hi All,

There are cases to be made for both sides but ultimately:

* The "100 Bonus Tomestones" Message is just not an accurate enough measure of a Person's Skill / Worth.

For those of you that just want to use that as the defacto way to exclude other people, fine. It's your party, your rules.

But as Angel and others have mentioned, there are also numerous cases of players who ARE more than "worthy" to join; they just don't have the clear due to various circumstances. I remember when I was just learning Turn 6 and 7 in random Party Finders, how I performed my job with No Mistakes, and yet I didn't get a win at the time. I made zero mistakes, but the party still lost.

Back when I was finishing up my Nexus, there were NUMEROUS Titan Extreme fights I joined (when Titan was on Bonus Light), and the random Duty Finder players were in High Allagan (and some had High Allagan Weapons! (Turn 9 Clear)), and THEY were the ones flying off the ledge during Landslide. LOL. Sigh. :(

So just having a "clear" doesn't mean that player is more worthy over another who doesn't. "Yes," it can be easier to just look for the Bonus Message and kick people, but that kind of blanket judgement is unfair and inadequate in measuring a person's worth / skill.

I helped a bunch of random players clear Ifrit Extreme in 1.0 (when it was the hardest fight in the game), and they hadn't beaten it before. Some of the smoothest Ifrit Ex 1.0 clears were with "Going for a Clear" players, with no previous win. Same for Turn 7 Clears for others. They made no mistakes and our runs went flawlessly (no missed Cursed Voices, etc.).

I would'nt mind if half the time i join these groups its the person who bitch about the person with solidery req who fucks up the most.

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Originally Posted by Kiara

For those of you that just want to use that as the defacto way to exclude other people, fine. It's your party, your rules.

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I agree with everything you said with exception of the one sentence I quoted above. It should not be used to exclude people from runs, not only because it is a very unreliable and extremely naive way to judge someones ability to complete content which borders on being a useless metric for making such assumptions...but also because it was never designed/intended to be used in a way to do harm to the very people it was meant to help. Please do not forget that the people using it in PF's requirements is just one portion of the problems associated with the notification at start of runs, as I mentioned before it is being abused in other areas of the game too.

I realize I got quite off track with my last post, but I agree that they should move the notification to the end of the dungeon. It will become apparent who the deadweight players are with or without the message popping up at any point, so putting it at the end will give people the benefit of the doubt.

I also agree that it can be used as a quick way to determine if the player is likely to be an asset; have the clear = decent chance they know the fight, don't have the clear = decent chance they don't know the fight. There are of course exceptions on either side hence "decent chance". I still support the use of the message as a means of filtering in PF but outside of there it's no good, and if it's moved to the end there are still other ways of checking clears before going into the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Firepower

Funny, because less than a week ago I cleared Shiva EX with a party with 6 people who got the clear achievement and the party was described as a "Semi Learning party" It took a few attempts to clear, following that it was farmed without fail 6 more times. So that "FARM" party consisted of people who had just come straight out of a "learning" party. So in this case we did perfectly fine and better than most farm parties who disband after one wipe. Furthermore after the first clear one tank left and a new tank joined which also got the achievement clear on our next clear.

So this clearly disproves your theory that anyone who doesn't have a million clears cant beat content.

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Shiva has been out for less than a month, and is the easiest primal to date. It disproves nothing.

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If the message is moved to the end, all you're gonna get is PF going back to other metrics to filter people, like linking items that drop. How do you feel now, you cleared the fight a few times but didn't win a drop so you're excluded cause you can't show proof of clear?

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Originally Posted by Firepower

Funny, because less than a week ago I cleared Shiva EX with a party with 6 people who got the clear achievement and the party was described as a "Semi Learning party" It took a few attempts to clear, following that it was farmed without fail 6 more times. So that "FARM" party consisted of people who had just come straight out of a "learning" party. So in this case we did perfectly fine and better than most farm parties who disband after one wipe. Furthermore after the first clear one tank left and a new tank joined which also got the achievement clear on our next clear.

So this clearly disproves your theory that anyone who doesn't have a million clears cant beat content.

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Few weeks ago.... you mean when it came out....
Hence most of the good players would get clear achievements too?

The longer time passes the more bads will need it, the less goods....

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Originally Posted by Staris

Few weeks ago.... you mean when it came out....
Hence most of the good players would get clear achievements too?

The longer time passes the more bads will need it, the less goods....

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That's fallacy. Pure and simple. It is the same as if someone claimed all the good players played since version 1.0 of FFXIV and all the bad ones started playing after ARR. The same reason that is a fallacy is the same reason your quoted comment is a fallacy.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

That's fallacy. Pure and simple. It is the same as if someone claimed all the good players played since version 1.0 of FFXIV and all the bad ones started playing after ARR. The same reason that is a fallacy is the same reason your quoted comment is a fallacy.

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No, it isn't a fallacy. The geared/skilled/experienced players do stuff when it first comes out, leaving the slow behind.

You seem to live in some kind of alternate reality where the ability to clear, for some illogical reason, doesn't depend on your own effort and performance.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

No, it isn't a fallacy. The geared/skilled/experienced players do stuff when it first comes out, leaving the slow behind.

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It most definitely can be a fallacy.

You are confusing skilled players with the status of their gear. There are several players that have gotten fully gears on the simple activities like Hunts, Hullbreaker and Snowcloak, then they grinded out a Relic weapon.
There are several skilled players that are "slow" and "behind" simply because they have Real life commitments that prevent them from being able to invest the time needed to achieve you faulty standard of good player.

BTW, congrats on having the time to lvl50 everything in this game (except ninja). I wish I had that kind of time to invest.