Possible Paladin Rework...

I always thought it was common sense to open or pull troublesome adds (ex: Iron Giant) with flash+scorn or lob+scorn. No? Just me? Ok.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

I'm sorry to say that you really won't be tanking a group of mobs any differently than you were before. It'll just be easier to do so the same way as always. Which is flash spam and circle of scorn here and there. If anything, the new Circle of Scorn buff would make ST aggro much, much better.

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You might not be, but i will be. I dont spam AoE attacks non stop on each mob (which is why i'm glad SE is making the change because i hated "having" to do it as pld, and even then i'd get away with not doing it as much as possible.)

I target the mob with which i have the least threat after a few AoE moves then start my single target. I also try to debuff mobs with the most HP so they dont deal as much damage to me if possible.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

I'm sorry to say that you really won't be tanking a group of mobs any differently than you were before. It'll just be easier to do so the same way as always. Which is flash spam and circle of scorn here and there. If anything, the new Circle of Scorn buff would make ST aggro much, much better.

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Not sure why they would buff those abilities now but hey I am not complaining. Also I agree with Fallen Wings, this will change nothing of how I tank or play in general.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

I'm sorry to say that you really won't be tanking a group of mobs any differently than you were before. It'll just be easier to do so the same way as always. Which is flash spam and circle of scorn here and there. If anything, the new Circle of Scorn buff would make ST aggro much, much better.

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Yup. Maybe now blm's won't rip hate off me with double flare despite me running myself dry of mana flashing. -.-

So happy we're finally getting an aoe enmity boost. ^^

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Originally Posted by Danbo05

I always thought it was common sense to open or pull troublesome adds (ex: Iron Giant) with flash+scorn or lob+scorn. No? Just me? Ok.

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Shield lob + CoS, yes. Actually, usually 2-3 shield lobs to keep up hate while I position since your average DPS can be pretty trigger-happy... Wait for the tank to position the mob? Ain't nobody got time fo dat.

So anyone got some rough numbers on the new CoS and Flash buffs?

I recall Flash generating around 495-500 potency worth of enmity before any modifiers. Would like to know how much it is now.
And the aggro mod on CoS should be easy to figure out.

Bump w/ Data

New Flash Potency is 600. Up from 495. (+21%)
Circle of Scorn's INITIAL 100 Potency hit now has a 3x hate mod, and the ticking damage, which totals 150 potency does not.
So CoS is now 300 Upfront and 150 Dot (hate wise), for a total of 450, up from 250. (+80%)

Hmm, the buff to Flash is nice. Though still, CoS, for being a lvl 50 skill on a 25s CD still feels "meh". Don't get me wrong, the 80% hate increase is appreciated, but it seems like the dot should also have the same 3x hate mod.
This would bring the total up to 750, stronger than Flash, which is easy to spam, and on par with a non-Maim Overpower.

War will still easily have an aggro lead given Defiance-Maim-Overpower is 2*.75*1.2*120*5 = 1080 hate potency per use.
The only issue I can foresee is just the way dots work may not let them be subjected to a hate mod. In which case the initial 100 Potency of CoS would need a 6x mod, along with 30*5 worth of damage, for a total of 600+30*5 = 750.

I can confirm this. The new enmity potency of Flash is 600 (so ~100 more) and CoS got a *3 modifier for the initial hit.

I think the Flash/CoS enmity buff while great, is nothing but a temporary band-aid in lou to a bigger issue. Enmity generation is still going to be a problem as long as we're completely married to Vitality in the accessory slots and the STR gap between tanks and DPS grows. Basically put, though Tanks are not DPS, our enmity generation is based upon our DPS. Every time we get new gear upgrades, tank DPS doesn't grow at the same rate as DPS classes and therefore our enmity generation will suffer eventually as gear upgrades happen.

Well, that is unless they change the way the mechanics for enmity work. Such as having enmity scale with VIT instead of damage, or turning PLD/WARs main attributes to VIT only have it scale for 25% less than DPS primary attributes to help keep the balance. In the end either way it would be easier to manage hate mechanics.

Or add STR to tank accessories, but make them tank only.
Though the idea of having lets say 25-50% of your VIT affect your base potency value when considering threat calculations would be nice.
Granted this may require more detailed tooltips, to the point where we would be allowed to see our actual base potency for damage AND for threat.

Sad to see that PLD has not been fixed even after my lengthy leave of the game and just returning back to the game. I was going to continue to level the class and maybe see that they fixed it but from this thread it appears nothing has been done to fix the issue.