Over-healing should not generate extra threat

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

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So let me get this straight, you come into a thread I started and then fuss about having to read my posts? Well that makes so much sense. Why don't you just not come into my thread then you won't have to read any of my posts, and not wait for my daily limit at all? Just a thought.

And again, using regen has nothing to do with needing to get better at healing. Why you and so many others try and link the two I'll never understand, expect perhaps for some compulsive need to insult the way others play.

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Originally Posted by Dale

I don't know who thought this idea up on the SE development team, but it was a bad decision. Tanking and healing on this game is tricky enough - especially considering how so many people who play this game are in such a rush they demand the tank grab half the dungeon at a time.

Heals should only generate threat if they actually restore health.

Please change this.

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So question about tanks and dps...should threat only be generated if damage is actually done? Also, if your tank is losing threat to over-healing, you might need a better tank. If your tank isn't losing threat to over-healing, I don't see what the problem is. Tanking and healing in this game really are not that "tricky."

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Originally Posted by Dale

I don't think you understand the concept of a healing over time spell. It is used to preempt damage.

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Ahhh...I get it now. You don't understand basic game mechanics. HoTs have the same effect as Cure. They directly heal damage. There is nothing preemptive about HoTs because the damage is still taken. The biggest benefit of HoTs are that if they are allowed their full duration, they are by far the most MP efficient cures a healer can have.

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Originally Posted by Dale

He's not ok with it :)

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Bah. You don't have any others you can play with to get into the tanking role, are are you just ok letting it go?

Sorry, it's just hard to picture you as a mage after so long you being a Paladin. Then again, me on a Female Dragoon avatar is bound to be throwing you off a bit. >.>

As far as the healing game goes, you're talking frustrations around 4 man events on mechanics designed primarily around 8-man. In which case we have Scholar to Consider. If White Mage had no punishment for the Regen Ticks on Medica II and Regen, there'd be little need for the shielding mechanics that I find to be a quintessential mechanic of Scholar.

And I don't think MP management is a significant enough punishment. Especially considering how MP light trash-monster pulls tend to be. Remember, there's no hate cap in this game. (Not Volatile Enmity either) Without HoT hate, there would be virtually no way for a healer to take hate in this game unless they increased curing enmity for burst healing, which, to me, would be an even worse nightmare.

If it doesn't punish you with over generation of threat you will be punished by lack of mp due to spamming.
Its better to get the hang of it through taking aggro than running out of mp, running out of mp sucks :(

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I've been aggravated by Regen Tics securing hate on spawns or pulls before hate can be grasped by the tank. Eos in particular is horrible with Whispering Wind during Garuda Extreme (you can tell who's microing their skills in those situations.) But I don't want the mechanics changed just because I'm inconvenience. I alter my playstyle to compensate..

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Put Eos/Selene in Obey stance.

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

Put Eos/Selene in Obey stance.

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I do, some other healers don't, thus my frustrations. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Dale

So let me get this straight, you come into a thread I started and then fuss about having to read my posts?

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Guess I shouldn't have put that end part in my post, since it derailed you from my point that the whole overhealing thing is a balance issue between scholar and white mage, you either ignored that because you have nothing for that, or you just got blinders from me saying I was looking forward to you reaching your posting limit. You are just sitting in your corner refusing to see the whole picture crying because other games don't have this, well, this game has a few things that other games don't, is your next post going to be crying about the armory system since WoW doesn't have it?

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

You are just sitting in your corner refusing to see the whole picture crying because other games don't have this, well, this game has a few things that other games don't, is your next post going to be crying about the armory system since WoW doesn't have it?

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Sometimes I am reminded how hostile these forums can get. It's almost habitual that we accommodate an opposing viewpoint with an insult.

He stated a preference, and made a request. Granted, the request is unpopular, but the reactions are getting pretty overboard. I still don't agree with his stance but even in correcting yourself from your statement last time, you still manage to be a bit harsh in your tone, and it's still detracting from your point. There's no need to cite the Slippery Slope mantra on this, as it's a common logical fallacy. The matter of inter-class balance should stand on its own merits, as well as citing the differences in game concepts and designs between this game and others that necessitate the need for more depth and difficulty in Curing hate management.

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Originally Posted by Dale

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It won't be perfect, but that's why you delay your heals. WHM is a Reactive healer, you don't NEED to precure unless the tank is going to take massive damage, or attack animations are broken/desynced like the Juggernauts in T4. Like I mentioned, don't heal when the tank lost 500 health, use Cure 1 when he's lost approx 1k health. Also like I mentioned any over heal, if at all, at that point is entirely minuscule because if the tank has already taken 1k damage, they have generated enough hate that the 50 or so over heal points would be nothing more then a drop in the lake. And when you're curing, the tank is STILL taking damage, so chances are he won't be 100% HP when your cure registers.

It is 100% avoidable, you're not making the effort to avoid it from what everything sounds like.

This thread has become one of those ridiculous threads like like the ACN > SMN one or the tanky healers one. This will be my last post in this thread.

I agree that there should be a mechanic to discourage overhealing, but I think threat ends up having the wrong effect.

If the tank is facing mobs the wrong way and AoEs are flying around everywhere, it's clear that the tank is at fault. If a DPS goes full burst rotation on the wrong mob in an AoE pull and gains aggro, it's the DPS's fault and they end up dying. In all these cases, it's abundantly clear that the player at fault is what's causing the issue.

Healers on the other hand? Overhealing a target does not inherently create a problem. Yes, it's a problem on extended bosses when the healer runs out of mana, but in shorter fights there's no clear, direct feedback. That's supposed to be what the extra threat is for, but it ends up sending the wrong message because a loss of aggro is more intuitively attributed to a failure of the tank than a failure of the healer.