Please give archer a dagger.

Why is Dungeons & Dragons still the only game (and the first RPG ever made for that matter) to get this right?

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/3.5e_Fi..._Ranged_Attack

Another thread being dragged into the Ranged AA debate. I believe this thread's topic is about what Archer's melee range AA should be: punch, slap, shank, hug, what-have-you. Not whether or not Ranged AA should exist. The OP accepts that there will be a melee AA and no range AA, and is proposing a debate on how it should be.

Wait until you guys play the game after the patch before you go ape shit on something we don't know the full details on yet. If you feel absolutely compelled to debate this already old topic of ranged AA, there's already at least 2 threads for it.

Now as for this thread's topic - I would have preferred the arrow shanking myself :P
Although I must say being that Archer is my secondary after my Pugilist, having Archer punch at close range is not without a sense of irony for me~

Ya know with the way the later bows have all that armor plating and spikes and god knows what else tacked on. It would make more sense for a arc to play a bit of el Kabong with there bow in melee distance.

I can kind of dig why aa is not being expanded to actual ranged attacks. Arrows are a finite consumable resource, Yes i know there easy to come by and the have a massive stack size. Its also the responsibility of the player to make sure they don't derp out onto the battle field with ten arrows. That being said, As a Mrd i have never been reduced to useless status because i have run out of axe to hit things with.

Now if they were to change the finite nature of arrows, which i don't see happening in the near future. let the aa arrow plunk fly, and may it block out the sun.

Here is the dev reply in regards to archer sub weapon in the jp forums.

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Originally Posted by Mocchi

弓術士の近接攻撃用の専用の武器を追加してほしいという件について、松井に聞いてきました。

気持ちはすごくすごくわかりますが、後衛クラスの弓術士の近接攻撃用の武器を入れてしまうことは、ジョブ／クラスのバランスや、アーマリーシステムとの相性を考えると実装はできないですとのことでした。

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"We confirmed with Matsui in regards to adding a melee/sub weapon for archer.

While we really understand how you feel, considering the balancing required for class/job system and compatibility issues with the armory system, adding a melee weapon for Archer is not possible."

Being Archer main, i was rather upset that we would be using h2h, while i had a feeling we would not be getting ranged AA, i was hoping for a weapon of some kind like dagger. After having read this post, iv decided to wait and see how close range AA is on archer, since if their not even considering a sub weapon, then they must be really confident that the current option will work and not have a lot of people rage after implementation. Also interested in seeing how the job system will effect archer, since jobs are meant to help define class roles, archer is ranged and in the reply they talk about not wanting to destroy class/job balance by adding a weapon so will be interesting to see how job will effect archer.

In the end, if the system sucks, i'm sure enough people will rage and they will be forced to change since it seems like not a lot of people are fond of the current option in the JP section either.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

you want a good excuse, here is a good excuse:
Archer is the ONLY class that is dependant on a limited amount of ammunition, once it runs out, you are down to a crappy stone throw that will maybe critical for 3 dmg. It is also one of the few classes where your damage and accuracy is affected by positioning. Auto Attack would burn through your ammunition at a fast pace, and would leave you no time to re-position if needed. Also, AA would cancel out the bind status caused by Shadowbind and close shot, meaning that the class would lose it's ability to solo.

There, THREE good reasons why ranged attacks should never be AA, don't like it, stick with your pointy stick thing. As for the unlimited quivers argument, FFXI had the same system, and I have yet to hear people whine about how it was unfair for rng to be one of the best dds and have a dependancy on ammunition to balance out that capability. Again, you don't like it, don't play it.

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Sorry, but those are awful excuses. If you run out of ammo that's your own faut, and if you don't want remove bind just get out of active mode, not that big of a problem.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

you want a good excuse, here is a good excuse:
Archer is the ONLY class that is dependant on a limited amount of ammunition, once it runs out, you are down to a crappy stone throw that will maybe critical for 3 dmg.

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So don't run out of arrows. Derp!

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

It is also one of the few classes where your damage and accuracy is affected by positioning. Auto Attack would burn through your ammunition at a fast pace, and would leave you no time to re-position if needed.

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Two things here:
1. AA shouldn't burn up your ammo any faster than clicking 111111111 at perfect timing, which is what the hardcore people are going to be doing anyway.
2. It's not like AA is going to lock you to the spot. You can reposition fine. Many of us also want Archer to be able to fire while mobile. After all, mages can cast while mobile, and it does make sense for Archer to be able to do the same, perhaps with an accuracy penalty. You can give Archer the same sort of Steadfast-like accuracy trait and nerf the overall accuracy so that it encourages you to stand still but doesn't force you to.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Also, AA would cancel out the bind status caused by Shadowbind and close shot, meaning that the class would lose it's ability to solo.

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I *really*...*really* fail to see how anyone thinks that you won't be able to easily slip in/out of auto-attack.

One would assume that you could just go Passive after binding, and then run where you need to, and resume when cooldowns are up.

what I really don't get is.....

Why are Archers complaining about close range auto attack, when they should not even be in melee range to begin with -.-

If you play it right Archers are the top DD class, but are controlled by no AA and ammunition. I think what WoW did (taking away limited ammunition) was a very stupid idea.

Like others have said, if there was ranged AA, there would be no control when it comes to damage output, or consumption, and that would ruin Archer.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

Like others have said, if there was ranged AA, there would be no control when it comes to damage output, or consumption, and that would ruin Archer.

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...sigh...

Ranged AA will not impact consumption any more than someone spamming Light Shot over and over. In fact, given that the AA videos seem to show AA timing as being slightly slower than normal free-attack-spamming, it would probably go down.

This misconception really needs to die.

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"...considering the balancing required for class/job system and compatibility issues with the armory system, adding a melee weapon for Archer is not possible."

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That may be the main reason.
And, to be honest, selfish me is convonced.
Though I think letting them attack with their bow at melee range (slap-slap, or trying to strangulate their enemy with the bowstring) sounds more appropriate for me.

Btw: What keeps them from using bow+arrows at close range? Lowered accuracy?

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Originally Posted by Cutriss

...sigh...

Ranged AA will not impact consumption any more than someone spamming Light Shot over and over. In fact, given that the AA videos seem to show AA timing as being slightly slower than normal free-attack-spamming, it would probably go down.

This misconception really needs to die.

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And the fact classes are getting adjusted/balance makes a lot of the control points moot.