Is anyone else bothered by the lack of incentive for mediocre players to improve?

Whenever i read stuffs like this "If you're playing this game so you can get your dumb trophy (video game clothing for your video game cat man...)", I wonder why the heck are the person even bothering with a game genre in which everything it stand for seems to be dumb and a waste of time and childish to him.

Anyway, I think some things shouldn't be just handled to people for free. That's kills the entire feeling of improvement and the challenge. It' not about "oh, he is trying to compensate his sucky life with fake achievements in a fake world", it IS all about playing the game.

But there is incentive to get better. Party Finder groups are getting so exclusionary that if people want to experience parts of the game, they'll have to get better or they won't get to do it. If that's not motivation enough, I don't think there is anything SE could do to make them want to improve. Some people just like to play and don't care if they "suck" as long as they are having fun.

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Originally Posted by Edenholt

Whenever i read stuffs like this "If you're playing this game so you can get your dumb trophy (video game clothing for your video game cat man...)", I wonder why the heck are the person even bothering with a game genre in which everything it stand for seems to be dumb and a waste of time and childish to him.

Anyway, I think some things shouldn't be just handled to people for free. That's kills the entire feeling of improvement and the challenge. It' not about "oh, he is trying to compensate his sucky life with fake achievements in a fake world", it IS all about playing the game.

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You seriously wonder that, for real? How about because there is so much more to the game than that? We're playing with people from completely different parts of the world that we would never have even interacted with otherwise. I've teamed up with and cooperatively completed challenges with people from Japan, Italy, France, Canada, all over the US, etc. I can't even speak the same language as some of these people, yet we still managed to work together and accomplish things. I think that's pretty cool. I also like being able to play with friends and family. And I enjoy helping people when I am capable of doing so. For me personally, obtaining gear and becoming skilled at my roles are a means to an end. Gear makes you better, and being good at your classes makes it so you can do more and help others. It's not the goal of the game for me, and a lot of other people either. It's definitely not 'everything the game genre stands for'.

I also don't think everything should be handed to people for free. And luckily for the both of us, it isn't. So no worries there.

Is anyone else bothered by all these stupid posts?

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Originally Posted by Miburo

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You're playing a MMO. Interact with other people from all around the world is part of it, be the game a FPS, RTS, MOBA or RPG. That's why I didn't bother to stress the obvious, that if you don't socialize then you're losing 50% of the MMO experience. I was focusing on the RPG subgenre of the MMO's. You know, the one with fantasy, levels, progression, dungeons and the "dumb trophies". I like to have progression, challanges, some nice shiny at the end as reward to show off a bit, just like when I used to sit around a table with my friends to play Dungeons & Dragons. If I considered all those things dumb, I'd not be playing the RPG genre, i would be playing some other type of MMO, if only for the social interaction.

Now, whenever I see people criticizing the RPG genre exactly for the things that compose it, then I wonder who is the wrong here: the person spending 3hr of his free time to beat a boss for a shining sword or the person wasting 1hr of his oh-so-busy life with a game genre he don't really enjoy only for a "dumb trophy".

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Originally Posted by Edenholt

You're playing a MMO. Interact with other people from all around the world is part of it, be the game a FPS, RTS, MOBA or RPG. That's why I didn't bother to stress the obvious, that if you don't socialize then you're losing 50% of the MMO experience. I was focusing on the RPG subgenre of the MMO's. You know, the one with fantasy, levels, progression, dungeons and the "dumb trophies". I like to have progression, challanges, some nice shiny at the end as reward to show off a bit, just like when I used to sit around a table with my friends to play Dungeons & Dragons. If I considered all those things dumb, I'd not be playing the RPG genre, i would be playing some other type of MMO, if only for the social interaction.

Now, whenever I see people criticizing the RPG genre exactly for the things that compose it, then I wonder who is the wrong here: the person spending 3hr of his free time to beat a boss for a shining sword or the person wasting 1hr of his oh-so-busy life with a game genre he don't really enjoy only for a "dumb trophy".

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And even then, the 'dumb trophy' part is one of many aspects. Not 'everything the genre stands for.' I never said all those things you listed were dumb.

Actually, if you took what you originally quoted in context, I wasn't even trying put down any aspect of MMOs or RPGs themselves. I was actually criticizing people who care more about the reward they get so that they can feel superior over those that don't have it, over the pride of having overcome the challenge. I was criticizing people who want others to be able to obtain less, so that they can feel more special. That's what the whole context was actually saying. Yes, I trivialized the gear to emphasize my point. And I'm not wrong, in the end it is just stupid clothing for you cat man, or in your case your androgynous midlander 'guy'. = p It is still sad to care more about dumb gear over your accomplishments. When you beat Twin and didn't get your sword or helmet were you still happy to have finally won? Or do you only care about the gear, for the primary reason to have things other people don't? If the former is true, then awesome. If yes to the second question, then yeah, you're the type of person I'm criticizing in that post. If you still have a problem with what I said after understanding the entirety of it, then whatever.

Oh, and I can still enjoy the game just fine while still realizing it's just a game. It's something I do for entertainment. It's not something I do to feel special or to boost my ego. I couldn't care less if people have high ilvls and aren't as good at the game as I am. I don't give a crap if people have the same stuff as me, even if they were able to obtain it more easily. And I certainly don't want other people to be able to enjoy less of the game so that I can feel special or superior. Nothing I've said in this thread hinders my enjoyment of the game, at all. Honestly not even sure where you were trying to go with the last part. I wasn't criticizing anyone for beating bosses and getting loot for it, and that doesn't describe me at all. So...? I dunno.

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Originally Posted by Miburo

And even then, the 'dumb trophy' part is one of many aspects. Not 'everything the genre stands for.' I never said all those things you listed were dumb.

Actually, if you took what you originally quoted in context, I wasn't even trying put down any aspect of MMOs or RPGs themselves. I was actually criticizing people who care more about the reward they get so that they can feel superior over those that don't have it, over the pride of having overcome the challenge. I was criticizing people who want others to be able to obtain less, so that they can feel more special. That's what the whole context was actually saying. Yes, I trivialized the gear to emphasize my point. And I'm not wrong, in the end it is just stupid clothing for you cat man, or in your case your androgynous midlander 'guy'. = p It is still sad to care more about dumb gear over your accomplishments. When you beat Twin and didn't get your sword or helmet were you still happy to have finally won? Or do you only care about the gear, for the primary reason to have things other people don't? If the former is true, then awesome. If yes to the second question, then yeah, you're the type of person I'm criticizing in that post. If you still have a problem with what I said after understanding the entirety of it, then whatever.

Oh, and I can still enjoy the game just fine while still realizing it's just a game. It's something I do for entertainment. It's not something I do to feel special or to boost my ego. I couldn't care less if people have high ilvls and aren't as good at the game as I am. I don't give a crap if people have the same stuff as me, even if they were able to obtain it more easily. And I certainly don't want other people to be able to enjoy less of the game so that I can feel special or superior. Nothing I've said in this thread hinders my enjoyment of the game, at all. Honestly not even sure where you were trying to go with the last part. I wasn't criticizing anyone for beating bosses and getting loot for it, and that doesn't describe me at all. So...? I dunno.

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Good idea, let's just remove gear from the game because it's not an important aspect. We can just normalize everyone's stats.
If gear isn't an achievement, it has no reason to exist. I honestly don't even know how to respond to this. I'm not sure why you're even posting.

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Originally Posted by Yenn

Good idea, let's just remove gear from the game because it's not an important aspect. We can just normalize everyone's stats.
If gear isn't an achievement, it has no reason to exist. I honestly don't even know how to respond to this. I'm not sure why you're even posting.

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Never said anything remotely close to that. Perhaps you should brush up on your reading comprehension skills before criticizing others for posting?

When I say that it's just video game clothes for you video game cat boy it is to emphasize how ridiculous you're being when you complain about others 'diminishing your accomplishments' and crap like that. Not to say gear in an RPG is a stupid thing to have. Gear is fine. Getting your panties in a bunch because people you think don't deserve gear can get gear isn't fine. It's pathetic. I don't know how to explain it any more clearly.

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Originally Posted by Yenn

Good idea, let's just remove gear from the game because it's not an important aspect. We can just normalize everyone's stats.
If gear isn't an achievement, it has no reason to exist.

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Originally Posted by Miburo

For me personally, obtaining gear and becoming skilled at my roles are a means to an end. Gear makes you better, and being good at your classes makes it so you can do more and help others. It's not the goal of the game for me, and a lot of other people either. It's definitely not 'everything the game genre stands for'.

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Originally Posted by Miburo

a means to an end

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I could basically start a Miburo fanclub today.

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Originally Posted by SummonerSenah

But there is incentive to get better. Party Finder groups are getting so exclusionary that if people want to experience parts of the game, they'll have to get better or they won't get to do it. If that's not motivation enough, I don't think there is anything SE could do to make them want to improve. Some people just like to play and don't care if they "suck" as long as they are having fun.

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Seriously? PF groups that say "n00bs will be kicked" "exp or yur out", these rude idiots are most certainly NOT the kind of people I like to play with. One good thing about it ..... you can weed them out of likely candidates to ever group with :p