Patch 2.2, Accessibility, Difficulty Levels, and Throwing Away Content

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Originally Posted by Fendred

The players who took on the harder challenge should be rewarded for that because that is part of the reward for doing harder challenges: The trophies and recognition that comes with it.

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LMFAO, what 'recognition'?

So sad you seem to think that anyone is remotely interested in what YOU do in a video game. The fact you did something means nothing to me and the fact you may some some sort of meaningless phat lewt as a result likewise.

YOU chose to do it, fine, but there's no kudos involved, get over yourself.

Oh yes, BTW, the fact you can BUY a 'carry' through any content with enough gil simply adds another reason why possessing a 'reward' says nothing about the skill of the player and may say everything about their use of RMT sites.

I mean I don't necessarily agree that recognition needs to be a huge part of these games, especially considering the general difficulty of FFXIV content. However the idea that no one can ever take pride in video game accomplishments is just too much. Highscore boards have existed for a long time, and that's because recognition is nice, so if you're going to argue against someone on this recognition angle please don't resort to tell them that what they did is completely worthless or they accomplished nothing. It's actually pretty interesting when people can achieve a really high school in Mrs. Pacman and generally they're making no different argument ... well they are kind of since Mrs. Pacman scores reset when you shut it off but they want the whole game modified in various ways as an honor to their accomplishment.

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Originally Posted by Worm

You completely dodged the instanced vs. competitive content angle here. I understand why though, because it's really hard to rectify with everything else you're saying. How do you make a instanced game with horizontal progression? Are you saying you'd be happy with this new version of coil if it had ilvl 91 gear and ilvl 96 weapons at the end? Probably not. We have the option of slowly building up to a raid difficulty that most players don't see like Naxx40 or Sunwell. Mind you difficulty includes all attunements, grinding, bugged encounters, resist gear farming, or fingernails that must be pulled out and mailed to the developers. Of course only 5%~ of the player base being to reach this content when it's current doesn't make it obsolete, it makes it obsoleet ... HEH.

Then we have the option of just making the game have competitive non-instanced content, which means either it needs to be HUGE beyond imagining or simply have servers with as few players as there were ten years ago. I really don't think there's much middle ground, games are designed for more load now-a-days because everyone wants WoW numbers, that's it. It's just an inevitable and unavoidable truth. I hope a company comes and builds an MMO for 6 figures, but seeing as Brad McQuaid's latest hardcore vaporware has kickstarter goals up into the millions, I doubt it'll happen. I'd like to see it happen but subbing to games and spending the majority of your time trying to World's Best MMO Soothsayer on the forums isn't going to make people want to make this game, I swear.

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Instanced vs. non-instanced was "dodged" by me because it is completely, 100% irrelevant to the discussion. The way to make instanced content with horizontal progression isn't difficult to imagine, it would be exactly the same as non-instanced content with horizontal progression. That is, future instances drop equipment that is relevant and unique, but not equipment that is plainly superior to what came before it. Then instead of raising mobs stats by 10% or whatever to compensate, they design mobs to be fought by players of their current level of strength. I don't know why the concept seems so foreign to you once you throw instances into the mix. It is as simple to wrap your head around as could be.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Actually I believe he does know, since he has made one for adults with a life. You on the other side seem to still believe MMOs should be for kids who ignore school and should require a ton of time and work.

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Nope, I believe that people people who work hard should be rewarded, yes, and people who don't work hard and don't spend the same ammount of time in the game shouldn't have access at the same stuff. You can't get the Level 90+ relic because you aren't willing to learn the fight? Big deal! You are going to live without it.

This is what giant persistent rpg world should be about.

And the kid vs adult argument is kinda silly, I used to spent the same ammount of time for endgame I did for XI (which was played by plenty of adults, btw), 3 or 4 night at week. And I find funny that the "adults" is this argument are the one acting like the "kids", they want everything without effort. My 14 years old self who played FFXI back then knew he wasn't going to get a Dalmatica because he wasn't skilled enough or willing to put enough hours into the game, and what did he do? He dealt with it.

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Exclusive and hard content is a waste. Only thing you need is fun content

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Ironically, this "Exclusive and hard content" is what keep a mmorpg alive, giving people objective and something to strive for. Easy content that can be solved in 2 weeks after a patch kills a mmorpg since people get bored and have nothing to work toward for.

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Originally Posted by Scarletyoshi

I don't understand the value in doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Are there really people who want to do the endgame content out now 4 years from now? These are people that exist? Why wouldn't they want to do what's new? I just don't understand why people are so attached to content they've done already hundreds of times, as we are constantly reminded.

To each his own I guess.

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It is not people wanting to spam the same thing for year, it is people wanting to run out of stuff to do. The game is in a state of horrible lack of content currently once you master the content.

Coil 1 through 5 2hs maby. All the extreme primals maby 40mins. Add on 3 crystal towers with a guild alliance (Not hard to do at all if you know how) 2hrs maby. A few more primals to cap myths... done for the week. So currently the game has 5-6hrs of content a week. 1-2 days of content for many people.

People do not want content negated because SE does not have near enough worthwhile content in this game to start negating it. I would say they need at min 5 fold as much before they start the negation of everything. I know the argument "Less the blah blah % can do that" but some are there for the content negation should be modeled after those who are running out. That way non of your subscribers are in a situation of being forced to pay to not play. SE is charging some people $9-15/month for a 2 day a week game, which is 100% bs.

We want the ability to play 40-50hrs a week and never run out of things to do. This is not some absurd expectation. This is the norm for a mmo. It is also why most mmos fail. I expect to never run out of content if I am paying for it. That is my and manys min. Expectation of SE.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

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We want the ability to play 40-50hrs a week and never run out of things to do. This is not some absurd expectation. This is the norm for a mmo. It is also why most mmos fail. I expect to never run out of content if I am paying for it. That is my and manys min. Expectation of SE.

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that is some HIGHLY absurd expectations a for mmo within it first 2 years. if you are spending a 40-50 hours per week on a game, then find something else to do...

also the norm for a mmo?...lol for a mmo with years and years on content maybe...expecting to play a mmo to 40-50 hours a week (especially on a new mmo no doubt) will just assured a burnout. i dont get people like you. you know NO NEW MMO will have enough content like that, yet you still join in the game in it infancy and cried that it doesnt have 40 hours of content?you realized that this game will never have that much content probably until it second year. i advised you and other like people to quit until then. perhaps you and your friends need to find a SANDBOX mmo, i dont think theme parks are for you.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

So currently the game has 5-6hrs of content a week. 1-2 days of content for many people.

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See for me that's just enough content. I still play a lot, run my face at a wall with helping FC members and randoms with stuff etc... and yet still have time to actually do that content and on top of that can actually do OTHER stuff as well not only FFXIV. So instead of making me choose - play FFXIV or play this other game/watch that thing/read a book/etc... I can actually do both. I really don't care for weekly lockouts etc... sure I ran coil 1-3 so far a few times. Did I enjoy it... sure... but frankly neither t1 or t2 were really that much interesting. What I loved was the jumping around in t3 and I hope that maybe the floating city of Nym might reuse that mechanic. I always laugh so much when people start getting lost or just die from fall damage etc...

The difficulty level, I wish they would keep. The fact that between normal titan and end game actually taught you and improved on playing skills is awesome. If they make the game too easy to cater to those who aren't willing to learn then it will end up dying.

The complaint about needing a trophy every time you complete something large... completing it is a value in itself. You don't hear people talking about how much coil gear they have, you hear them saying what Turns they've completed.

As for the "throw out," the great part of this game is you do want to try everything. Its also nice to have easier raids to take newly 50 fc members on. It has also given groups a chance to go in with unconventional parties to see how far you can push yourselves.

I do find it funny reading forum posts. A lot of the complaints are "ITS ALL BAD" instead of figuring out how to use it to the best of it's ability. Take a step back and try to look at how you can use them to your advantage.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

We want the ability to play 40-50hrs a week and never run out of things to do. This is not some absurd expectation. This is the norm for a mmo. It is also why most mmos fail. I expect to never run out of content if I am paying for it. That is my and manys min. Expectation of SE.

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For a game that has been out a couple of months... yeah it is. The fact that they've already released one content patch is fantastic and even more that they are about to release another. The monthly events in themselves are great! That you'd expect the same amount of time out of a game that isn't even a year old as a game that has been out for years and years... is just stupid. If you're that upset about a new game not having enough content to fulfill a live-in-my-mom's-basement expectation then you should go back to one of the large mmos that have been out for (and I emphasize) yeaaaaaaaaaaars.

40-50 hrs a week ? Where do you find that much time ? Or is FFXIV a full time job ?