ARR often feels very contradictory in its design (long)

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01-07-2014, 05:45 AM
Whiz

@the OP you make about 5 points i will say I agree with 2 out of the 5.
His main points were

1. armory system: I think the armory system is fine. They said they promote running alts op says they don't because of instance locks(which almost every mmo has to date) but you forget about i70 crafted and philo gear. You can farm philo unlimited for i70 darklight or you can buy crafted gear. You can do Coil T1/T2 with i70. You deck out your main with coil then move to alts. I really don't see the problem here.

2. Making jobs more reliant on cross class abilities. Big no thanks here. You open up a serious can of worms like this that SE would probably have to rebalanced classes every other month ie. rift. In 11 you only got 1 subjob atleast in 14 you get 2 be happy.

3. crafting not bis. I'm glad its not Bis if you could craft i90 gear the End game would dead. trust me once they let you craft Bis the game will die and they know this. Crafting was big and successful in FF11 and they never allowed you to craft Bis gear. I honestly don't think any game does. I don't see a problem with crafting. As the ilevels increase so will the gear crafting recipes.

4. Dying non crafted gear. and more use out of materia. I'm with you on this we should be able to dye all our gear imo and hopefully they will let us use materia on our dungeon gear even if its just materia 2's.

5. Open World past lv 50 i think is a work in progress. They gave us dailies(a step in the right direction). Now we just need something like FF11 campaign battle for the open world and maybe have players invade beast men strong holds maybe rev up the strong hold bosses where an ally is needed to kill them maybe have them drop some rare crafting items for vanity or something idk. But yeah open world past 50 needs improvement.
01-07-2014, 05:47 AM
SolArisa

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostmagemari

SQE doesn't get anymore chances though, this is crunch time... They have a game, they have to make it work and can't expect the community to keep waiting from patch to patch, only to hear apologies from the Devs and then more promises for the next patch.

Sigged. Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostmagemari

As long as the company does not see a drop in subscriptions, they will continue to ship content as if it has the communities full backing.

Full ack. My subscription runs until March 15th, but I unregistered my credit card this weekend and if they don't deliver some convincing and resilient results until then, that's it for me. TESO will be around the corner then anyway. Also cancelled my running order of "Bravely Default", plus the X/X-2 and KH 2 pre-orders, after being a SE collector for 1.5 decades.
01-07-2014, 05:49 AM
Whiz

*oops dp*

10 character
01-07-2014, 06:06 AM
SolArisa

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

A well-stated, excellent OP. I agree: SE created these marvelous systems (multiple classes per character, crafting/gathering, materia, and a beautiful open world), and then "kneecaps" each one of them in some way.

Let's say it otherwise: Yoshida obviously saw some nice ideas of other game designers in other games, took those ideas, destroyed purposely what was good at 1.23, and then proved to be unable to implement the stolen ideas properly in this game. And it becomes really funny when you realize that the 11.5 years old and much frowned upon FF XI still has the fresher ideas, more innovations and better execution (for a lower price).
01-07-2014, 06:07 AM
ArcheustheWise

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolArisa

Sigged. Thank you.

Full ack. My subscription runs until March 15th, but I unregistered my credit card this weekend and if they don't deliver some convincing and resilient results until then, that's it for me. TESO will be around the corner then anyway. Also cancelled my running order of "Bravely Default", plus the X/X-2 and KH 2 pre-orders, after being a SE collector for 1.5 decades.

Heh, this isn't the squaresoft we grew up with, is it my friend? Lol. But hey Look forward to it am i right? :p lolz.

All in all i really do hope they pull it out of the fire. Final fantasy has been my favorite ip for years. (9 still being my favorite).
01-07-2014, 06:08 AM
Astarica

FF14 seems to be designed from the EQ1 era with some random WoW-era mechanisms sprinkled through, so you end up with a game that is sort of hardcore and sort of not.

Since subscription based MMORPG are extremely profitable, for the most part the company doesn't care even if people are unsubbing in masses because games like this is probably profitable with only 100K. The reason why every one and their brother has a MMORPG is because the genre is immensely profitable. From what I can tell most companies just write off the sub losses as lost causes without actually doing anything about it.
01-07-2014, 06:22 AM
Magis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astarica

FF14 seems to be designed from the EQ1 era with some random WoW-era mechanisms sprinkled through, so you end up with a game that is sort of hardcore and sort of not.

Since subscription based MMORPG are extremely profitable, for the most part the company doesn't care even if people are unsubbing in masses because games like this is probably profitable with only 100K. The reason why every one and their brother has a MMORPG is because the genre is immensely profitable. From what I can tell most companies just write off the sub losses as lost causes without actually doing anything about it.

1.0 or ARR? I don't see much Everquest in ARR.
01-07-2014, 06:26 AM
SolArisa

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

But hey Look forward to it am i right? :p lolz.

Right. "Looking forward to it", that's what they want their customer base to do, starting with their delivery of a basically empty CD for "Wings of the Goddess".

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

All in all i really do hope they pull it out of the fire. Final fantasy has been my favorite ip for years. (9 still being my favorite).

I second that, except for the hope. Hope and patience went down the drain with patch 2.1. The time of excuses is over for me, and I bet I am not alone here. Even though many still follow the hype.
01-07-2014, 06:36 AM
Jubez187

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiz

2. Making jobs more reliant on cross class abilities. Big no thanks here. You open up a serious can of worms like this that SE would probably have to rebalanced classes every other month ie. rift. In 11 you only got 1 subjob atleast in 14 you get 2 be happy.

3. crafting not bis.

1. The armory system may be fine but cross classing seems like it wasn't designed by someone who plays this game. Why is skull sunder a cross-class skill? It only works with a combo, and defiance, both exclusive to warrior. It's not well thought out and pursued.

2. No one is saying that crafting needs to be top-tier. But it needs to be WORTH IT, especially with how in-depth and well thought out the crafting system is. Also, the term "best in slot" is relative to a build that is relevant to a certain situation. I hate that term.
01-07-2014, 06:44 AM
Ryel

I agree with everything the OP has posted it would be nice to see a response to this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiz

1. armory system: I think the armory system is fine. They said they promote running alts op says they don't because of instance locks(which almost every mmo has to date) but you forget about i70 crafted and philo gear. You can farm philo unlimited for i70 darklight or you can buy crafted gear. You can do Coil T1/T2 with i70. You deck out your main with coil then move to alts. I really don't see the problem here.

This in itself is a massive issue, if the design behind the armory system is to truly play all classes as well as we wish to, it should never be the case that leveling a second character gears out a class more efficiently than doing it on a single one.

The simple fact of the matter is that they're using character based lockouts on jobs in a game that is supposed to promote playing multiple classes on one, the two systems simply don't support each other that way.

Quote:

2. Making jobs more reliant on cross class abilities. Big no thanks here. You open up a serious can of worms like this that SE would probably have to rebalanced classes every other month ie. rift. In 11 you only got 1 subjob atleast in 14 you get 2 be happy.

A comparison to XI isnt really the same in this case given that in XI gear progression was horizontal enough to warrant some jobs having 2-3 and sometimes 4 sub jobs that could be made viable given the situation, for example: DRG/WAR, /SAM, /THF (Party/HNM play) /WHM /RDM /BLU (Solo play) these were only accurate when the cap was 75 btw.

If anything we're currently offered less options than the subjob system.

Quote:

3. crafting not bis. I'm glad its not Bis if you could craft i90 gear the End game would dead. trust me once they let you craft Bis the game will die and they know this. Crafting was big and successful in FF11 and they never allowed you to craft Bis gear. I honestly don't think any game does. I don't see a problem with crafting. As the ilevels increase so will the gear crafting recipes.

This one i don't have an answer for outside of the fact that currently crafting as it is doesn't work at endgame, perhaps stricter ilvls are needed to encourage filling out slots with crafted gear? i'm not sure tbh, its just very apparent in the economy that crafting/gathering needs a bit more attention.

Quote:

4. Dying non crafted gear. and more use out of materia. I'm with you on this we should be able to dye all our gear imo and hopefully they will let us use materia on our dungeon gear even if its just materia 2's.

I think this is generally agreed on.

Quote:

5. Open World past lv 50 i think is a work in progress. They gave us dailies(a step in the right direction). Now we just need something like FF11 campaign battle for the open world and maybe have players invade beast men strong holds maybe rev up the strong hold bosses where an ally is needed to kill them maybe have them drop some rare crafting items for vanity or something idk. But yeah open world past 50 needs improvement

Beastmen strongholds as they are now are a shadow of what they were in 1.0 the only strongholds that actually feel like they have any depth to them currently are maybe the Slyphlands and the Sahagin areas. Both Natalan and Zaharak feel barebones and empty especially when i can simply ride a mount through them with little to no interruption.

For the most part the maps are visually interesting compared to 1.0 but they feel so small and claustrophobic that there really is no sense of exploration, when i compare my open map to my physical area and realize that I'm technically halfway across a zone and yet i can still visibly see an aetherite camp as clear as day i don't really feel like I've gone anywhere.

and whats the point being level 50 if nothing in the world challenges us, theres no sense of danger or risk involved. I'd like them to bring back the adventure to us adventurers.

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