Bard - they broke my job

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Originally Posted by justinjarjar

IDK about reddit being the best subset of players still. The poll itself however does not show a significant change and for the most part is pretty useless as a tool. As well as casuals are a good chunk of the population and do have a say in the matter (that is like saying poor people should not have a say in government because they contribute less to government overall).

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They're far from the best :D It's just more of a statement of the general group that reads/posts there. I could say the same applies to people posting here as well though, that they're likely to be less casual and more informed about the game just because they care enough to be posting and trying to improve the game.

I don't mean to disparage casual players either, as they keep the game afloat. There were a LOT of casual player bards out there though, and I think we're just starting to see the effects of 3.0 class changes on them.

I know that is why i added the edit to let you know that I get the displeasure and it is nice to know what your peers think of the job change, but overall Bard is still in a good place with numbers of players and dps/support use as well. The poll in question however is not broad enough and tends to be more incline with a poll a new station would quote to make their "side/story" work better. Always be careful with polls since anyone who has done sanctioned polls knows that a lot of time and work goes into wording the questions and making sure you have a good sample, which a lot of polls either do not because of not putting it into consideration or on purpose to make the results the poll maker wants.

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Originally Posted by justinjarjar

It does not actually work that way

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Indisputability doesn't work that way. If it's indisputable, then there must be absolutely zero room for error.

However, as we look at the polls....

One poll's top 3 played is DRG, WHM, PLD, in that order.

The other is WHM, DRG, SCH, in that order.

While both have DRG and WHM in the top 2, their order is reversed, and third place is different.

Also, one has BRD beating only AST and MCH, while the other has BRD beating NIN, BLM, and MCH.

One of these polls is, therefore, factually incorrect.

Since one of the two polls is incorrect, that makes its accuracy clearly less than 100% accurate, which then also calls into question the accuracy of the other poll, if one poll can be inaccurate, thus making it disputable.

And that's how disputability works.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

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And where did I say his poll worked? I simply said that having a poll of every player is unrealistic and that as long as you had a good subset of polled people and questions with a clear %+/- based on amount of population you can have good results that you can use. I agree the poll is too narrow and over all does not show significant change.

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Originally Posted by justinjarjar

And where did I say his poll worked?

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Where did I say you did?

All I said was that his polls weren't indisputable and that the only indisputable evidence about class spread would be official evidence from SE, who could give accurate numbers based on the game, rather than a subset of people that don't necessarily represent the whole.

You then told me it doesn't work like that. And that's why I explained how indisputability works.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

Where did I say you did?

All I said was that his polls weren't indisputable and that the only indisputable evidence about class spread would be official evidence from SE, who could give accurate numbers based on the game, rather than a subset of people that don't necessarily represent the whole.

You then told me it doesn't work like that. And that's why I explained how indisputability works.

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cool so we agree.... I was pointing out that your reason to claim it was not a valid poll was incorrect. At this point I am wasting posts, anything can be true by accident to get real numbers for a poll there is already many policies that allow someone to get accurate numbers that can show significant change and correlations, without it you have a list, which does not show anything.

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Originally Posted by justinjarjar

I was pointing out that your reason to claim it was not a valid poll was incorrect.

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I didn't say it wasn't valid. I said it wasn't indisputable. For all I know, the percentages on (one of) the polls is completely accurate. But I wouldn't say it's indisputable because there's a chance it might be.

I hate that there is always someone who fights the simple statements. Sometimes I think they do so, just for the sake of getting into a fight.

BRD is broken IMO.

I have played long enough to know that I agree with this statement. If you do not. Great. Glad you are happy with it. But I am not. I am VERY unsatisfied with the changes to the class. And I am all for anything that can either correct this issue, or put it back to 2.X. BRD is BROKEN. Again. IMO.

Said it once and I'll say it again. Should make WM a MP draining song like the others and remove cast timers while using it. Raises own DPS till we run out of MP, just like Foe's for casters. IMO it adds another dynamic to fights and force us to better manage MP usage. Hell I would go further and lock the new abilities behind WM too. Effectively giving bards 3 stances. MP support, mage DPS support, TP support, and damage support for ourselves. 30% increase in damage to all abilities and now have access to new abilities to pump out more DPS for a short period of time. We keep our mobility and our AA's, that were already nerfed due to DET change, and GCD management goes back to how it was.

I love this idea. SE I hope you are listening! This!