What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by RoroCookies

I’m still bothered by the fact that Venat sunder the ancients so that they can interact with dynamis easily but never once considered the cons that comes with it. I also don’t understand why sunder them then never told us about dynamis in advance so we could actually learn how to manipulate it properly before going head first into Meteion. If Meteion didn’t conveniently flex on us on the ship and if Thancred didn’t fight back we would’ve lost instantly because we never learned how to interaction with dynamis even though that was part of the reason why Venat did what she did. Unless the ability to interact with dynamis is just giving a whole bunch of nothing speeches and praying for the best outcome. Power of friendship…. Yay.

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Thoughts and prayers!

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Doesn't really matter since they delayed the final days for thousands upon thousands of years with Zodiark. Which is also the only reason the sundered were able to live. I'm not convinced they couldn't have found a way to fix things themselves in that time, either. But I guess it doesn't matter since closed time loops mean there's no ability to experiment.

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They're also the only reason there is even a final days in the first place.

Nah, Hermes specifically is, and only because he prevents his colleagues from dealing with Meteion, which Venat herself abets later on by not being forthright with what was going on.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Nah, Hermes specifically is, and only because he prevents his colleagues from dealing with Meteion, which Venat herself abets later on by not being forthright with what was going on.

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Yeah, half of the Ancients that learn about Meteion do crazy things in response. Hermes decides to side with her and "test" his people, and Venat decides to destroy her own civilization.

Meanwhile, plenty of sundered find out about Meteion, but you don't see any of them going off the deep end quite like those two.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Yeah, half of the Ancients that learn about Meteion do crazy things in response. Hermes decides to side with her and "test" his people, and Venat decides to destroy her own civilization.

Meanwhile, plenty of sundered find out about Meteion, but you don't see any of them going off the deep end quite like those two.

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I mean....look at all the wars or messed up things that werent even due to any ascian involvement. Sildih zombification genocide for example lol. Considering the sundered didnt even last 2 seconds before giving into despair and mass turning into blasphemies i dont think its a very clear cut comparison. I dont really know what crazy things the ancients do though in response...unless you mean summon Zdoiark? In which case the sundered do effectively the same thing in the other timeline by being willing to sacrifice their entire timeline to bring the wol back.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I mean....look at all the wars or messed up things that werent even due to any ascian involvement. Sildih zombification genocide for example lol. Considering the sundered didnt even last 2 seconds before giving into despair and mass turning into blasphemies i dont think its a very clear cut comparison. I dont really know what crazy things the ancients do though in response...unless you mean summon Zdoiark? In which case the sundered do effectively the same thing in the other timeline by being willing to sacrifice their entire timeline to bring the wol back.

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Mate, the grand total losses the sundered suffered from the final days was some villages on the outskirts of Radz-at-han. Meanwhile, the Ancients went extinct.

It's clear we did loads better. :p

Yes, almost like having layers upon layers of plot armour, much of which provided by the unsundered, plus an actual clear roadmap of what caused it and where to find it, helps. Although nevermind those souls completely devoured by the latest version of the Final Days.

As for your other comment, it is silly. Hermes is the cause of it, and was happy to once more usher in the end as a sundered, separate (by his own admission) person too; it is an intrinsic propensity of his soul by all accounts. Venat tied her own hands by restricting what range of options she had because of the uncertainty of time travel mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Mate, the grand total losses the sundered suffered from the final days was some villages on the outskirts of Radz-at-han. Meanwhile, the Ancients went extinct.

It's clear we did loads better. :p

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You realize the souls that were lost in both thavnair and garlemald are erased right?The Ancients survived the final days, its Hydaelyn that made them extinct.Not to mention it wasnt exactly easy for us to win. They had to resort to major plot armor and contrivances to get us there, whilst also relying on said ancients that apparently did worse than us lmao.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

The story quite openly hints at a number of methods after all.

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I’m sure of those methods, where are they hinted at?

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Indeed - had it actually run its course, and had everything not already been put in place to hunt Meteion, it would've resulted in total planetary annihilation with no means to restore it.

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As would the Ancients as well. Reincarnation doesn’t work well when the Aetherial sea is drowned in Dynamis.

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Originally Posted by RoroCookies

I’m still bothered by the fact that Venat sunder the ancients so that they can interact with dynamis easily but never once considered the cons that comes with it.

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Manipulating dynamis was never the only reason, only a potential benefit. The Sundering is described as a “desperate act which allowed Her to imprison His shattered essence upon the moon.” It wasn’t the ideal.

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Originally Posted by RoroCookies

I also don’t understand why sunder them then never told us about dynamis in advance so we could actually learn how to manipulate it properly before going head first into Meteion.

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Dynamis manipulation was not something she could have direct experience in. What she did know was either told to her by us in Elpis, or was represented by the Elpis flower.

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Originally Posted by RoroCookies

If Meteion didn’t conveniently flex on us on the ship and if Thancred didn’t fight back we would’ve lost instantly because we never learned how to interaction with dynamis even though that was part of the reason why Venat did what she did. Unless the ability to interact with dynamis is just giving a whole bunch of nothing speeches and praying for the best outcome. Power of friendship…. Yay.

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Dynamis is governed by emotions, so prayer and love and hate and pain and feelings in general do command it. That’s why hope is so important, as it is both a shield and a sword.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

I’m sure of those methods, where are they hinted at?



As would the Ancients as well. Reincarnation doesn’t work well when the Aetherial sea is drowned in Dynamis.



Manipulating dynamis was never the only reason, only a potential benefit. The Sundering is described as a “desperate act which allowed Her to imprison His shattered essence upon the moon.” It wasn’t the ideal.



Dynamis manipulation was not something she could have direct experience in. What she did know was either told to her by us in Elpis, or was represented by the Elpis flower.



Dynamis is governed by emotions, so prayer and love and hate and pain and feelings in general do command it. That’s why hope is so important, as it is both a shield and a sword.

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Meanwhile as we know, the ancients were able to manipulate it to some extent, which just in the end makes her look even worse. She didn’t learn to “walk” with her people. She gave them 0 chance and damned them without even telling them the truth. We’ve seen that its been hinted with both the ancients in the dungeon run and with Elidibus they could utilize dynamis. I mean, in fact it seems Elidibus is able to block dynamis with the way he blocks limit breaks in his trial.It may not have turned into planetary annihilation had Venat told the ancients what was to come,since we know their souls werent consumed in the process, they were able to use that fuel for summoning Zodiark. Considering the sundered had to rely upon a loooot of things the unsundered left around, i think that says a lot.