Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

Quick q, Are the BiS lists on the op still relevant or has anything changed? Especially now that we have the Ramuh slaying ring which I like a lot more than the HA one. Any definitive bis for drg I should aim for?

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Originally Posted by SolarMisae

Quick q, Are the BiS lists on the op still relevant or has anything changed? Especially now that we have the Ramuh slaying ring which I like a lot more than the HA one. Any definitive bis for drg I should aim for?

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All BiS always revolved around the accuracy cap of the raid encounter, whatever u gear switch, make sure u got at least 495 acc to max 515 acc for t9

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Originally Posted by SolarMisae

Quick q, Are the BiS lists on the op still relevant or has anything changed? Especially now that we have the Ramuh slaying ring which I like a lot more than the HA one. Any definitive bis for drg I should aim for?

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There's some who swear by Det, some who swear by Gear Score, as you would notice if you've been stalking this thread. Both sides seem to be putting out impressive numbers so I guess... personal preference?

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Originally Posted by TheKingSlayer

Honestly Syg this is what you should have said from the beginning... You found a more potent "burst" rotation. The problem is, if you're using it as an "opening" rotation your probably sacrificing buffed dots and more overall dps, for a short initial opening burst. In certain situations, I could see that "burst" being effective, like during a T9 golem or dragon phase.

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

364.1 and thats not a wrong number =)

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He claims a net gain in potency of 364.1 and I'm still struggling to find out how your opener that changes something within the 6 seconds of HT is gaining you more than an extra combo'd full thrust.

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

He claims a net gain in potency of 364.1 and I'm still struggling to find out how your opener that changes something within the 6 seconds of HT is gaining you more than an extra combo'd full thrust.

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Its not. If you read my posts i explained why its not.

Still need some insight on this:

When calculating buffed potency, say Heavy Thrust, "Increases damage dealt by 15%"

Is it (potency) * 1.15

Or (potency) / .85

The reason I ask is I'm in sales. When I mark something up (profit margin), we divide by the reciprocal. This is increasing the value of the product by (profit margin), not taking a percentage of the value and adding to it.

Examples:

300 potency * 1.15 = 345
(this just takes 15% of the base 300 value and adds to it)

300 potency / .85 = 352.94
(this actually increases value by 15%)

I'm leaning toward the latter, but I'm not sure which is the proper way to calculate. Any thoughts? There is a drastic difference at higher percentages.

Take B4B, HT, Dis (conservative 8% increase)
25+15+8 = 48%

330 potency * 1.48 = 488.4

330 potency / .52 = 634.61

im wondering how you guys macro if at all, i put my power surge in with some combos so it goes off asa available

/ac life surge
/ac full thrust
/wait .5
/ac full thrust

im tank so not great at dps but this gets me some good crits or
/ac power surge
/ac dragonfire dive
/wait .5
/ac dragonfire dive

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Originally Posted by Killabye

im tank so not great at dps but this gets me some good crits or
/ac power surge
/ac dragonfire dive
/wait .5
/ac dragonfire dive

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Powersurge doesn't stack with DFD :( It only works with Jump or SSD.

Whiskeybravo, the way to calculate the additional dmg is to multiple by the potency by the percentage buff. Example:

300 x 15% = 45 thus 300 + 45 = 345 potency
Or
300 x 85% = 255, subtract that from 300 (300-255=45)

When you divide 300 by .85 you're finding the number that 300 is 85% of... Or 352.94 x .85 = 300. This is NOT the correct way to find percentage buffs

As well the percentages are multiplicative, meaning with HT your 100 potency skill is hitting for 115. After disembowel (10% buff) the new potency is 126.5 (115 x 10%) instead of 125. This also applies to B4B. Best to go back and read the first page Avyar breaks it all down. I'm doing a terrible explanation.

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Originally Posted by Killabye

im wondering how you guys macro if at all, i put my power surge in with some combos so it goes off asa available

/ac life surge
/ac full thrust
/wait .5
/ac full thrust

im tank so not great at dps but this gets me some good crits or
/ac power surge
/ac dragonfire dive
/wait .5
/ac dragonfire dive

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several pages before.. save LS for BFB, instead of using it whenever it's up. Makes binding LS to FT moot.

For PS depends if you wanna save it for Jump only, and as mentioned above doesn't apply to DFD.

For me I hate binding moves to macros unless i'm a bard. The responsiveness and shaving of GCD from skill speed gets thrown out of the window cause of the .5 tick of macro recognition. And generally you don't want to miss anything in your rotation cause the macro failed to recognise the next move.

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Originally Posted by TheKingSlayer

Whiskeybravo, the way to calculate the additional dmg is to multiple by the potency by the percentage buff. Example:

300 x 15% = 45 thus 300 + 45 = 345 potency
Or
300 x 85% = 255, subtract that from 300 (300-255=45)

When you divide 300 by .85 you're finding the number that 300 is 85% of... Or 352.94 x .85 = 300. This is NOT the correct way to find percentage buffs

As well the percentages are multiplicative, meaning with HT your 100 potency skill is hitting for 115. After disembowel (10% buff) the new potency is 126.5 (115 x 10%) instead of 125. This also applies to B4B. Best to go back and read the first page Avyar breaks it all down. I'm doing a terrible explanation.

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I think you did fine explaining.

it's just original potency X Total DMG+ Buffs X DMG+ from resistance reduction. That's general rule for weapon skills and auto attacks.


Then we open a can of worms by discussing whether DoT damage is reduced by piercing resistance (Disembowl) or magic resistance (Foe Requiem)... :)

DoT tick damage btw is determined at the time of application, so if you apply the DoT with your buffs up, the tick damage remains at the higher value for the subsequent ticks until the DoT wears off.

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Originally Posted by Killabye

im wondering how you guys macro if at all, i put my power surge in with some combos so it goes off asa available

/ac life surge
/ac full thrust
/wait .5
/ac full thrust

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I do have this macro'd, although my macro is as follows:

/micon Full Thrust
/ac Life Surge
/ac Full Thrust

And I just mash the button repeatedly (because I do that anyways).


Chione is right though, it is better saved for BFB.
Personally I tend to forget that BFB exists, so until I learn to properly incorporate that into my rotation I am keeping this macro.
(I need to spend some time with a training dummy to solidify my rotation...)

Holy cow this is an epic forum. ^.^

I haven't been on my DRG in a while due to play time restrictions and gearing up PLD, quick question which I am sure has been answered before. Rotation wise and weaving in globals. Currently I am using BFB before DoT application as I thought this was best before, namely before ID. From reading up here it looks like I should be saving BFB for LS>FT, is this correct?

Before I stopped playing DRG I was hitting 320ish as i90? Is this a good average or do I need to change some things up to get moar deeps?

Currently my rotation is set up as such:
H IDC P TTT
H TTT P IDC
H TTT P TTT

and burst on boss:
H > IR > ID > BFB > Dis > LegS > CT > PS > Phl > J > TT > SSD > VT > LS > FT > DFD

Is this too outdated? What are some tips and pointers to increase output?

Thanks in advance!

Syn

ok had to think real hard what bfb stood for, they have the same timers? if so good deal, ill do that. totally didnt know ps didnt work on dd too but im a tank so waaaaaaaaaa

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Originally Posted by TheKingSlayer

Best to go back and read the first page Avyar breaks it all down. I'm doing a terrible explanation.

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That's how I have been calculating except I had a second thought about the math and wanted to be sure before publishing any results xD

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Spartan117

I think you did fine explaining.

Then we open a can of worms by discussing whether DoT damage is reduced by piercing resistance (Disembowl) or magic resistance (Foe Requiem)... :)

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Thanks, I was half asleep trying to do the math when I wrote it :)

The DoT damage is NOT increased by the piercing debuffs, only the initial skill is. The initial potency of the phleb or CT skill is given the piercing debuff but the DoT ticks unfortunately don't get the benefit.

Spartan is spot on with the snapshot of buffs and ticks. Not that this would every really happen, but if for example B4B, HT, and IR all have 1 sec left when you applied chaos thrust, all the ticks over the next 30 secs from CT will buffed by those three even though they fell off immediately after application.

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Originally Posted by Killabye

im wondering how you guys macro if at all, i put my power surge in with some combos so it goes off asa available

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I never really used macros for Dragoon, to be honest. I find that small pause between each command when there are more strings (example, Life surge + Full thrust), plus not having visually distinct cooldowns, disturbing. I prefer to know when I'm popping each action/cooldown, especially since some CD coming up at certain time in the fight can help memorizing pattern/timings in certain bosses.

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Originally Posted by Synestr

snip

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This is the one that I use, roughly (I usually switch B4B and IR, not sure if I should do the other way around). There seems a debate as to whether there is or not a better initial burst, but it is nowhere near "outdated".

I'm not a dragoon by heart but probably my favorite class because of dragon fire dive. I forget the name of the move that guarantees a crit hit but it doesn't work with dragon fire dive. It only crits the enemy targeted the AOE part doesn't crit which I personally think is lame.

I hope I'm not too out of topic. Can anyone tell me what the good of Elusive Jump that it have 3 minutes cooldown?

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Originally Posted by FenHin

I hope I'm not too out of topic. Can anyone tell me what the good of Elusive Jump that it have 3 minutes cooldown?

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A gap closer that reduces your threat by half.

Hello, I got a question about building my Novus.

At the moment I've gotten 24Det and 31Crit. Would it be out of the question to add in 20Acc? As gil wise getting the IV materia to max out Det/Crit is out of the question.

Would that be alright or could I aim for slightly lower accuracy?

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Originally Posted by Krisom

Hello, I got a question about building my Novus.

At the moment I've gotten 24Det and 31Crit. Would it be out of the question to add in 20Acc? As gil wise getting the IV materia to max out Det/Crit is out of the question.

Would that be alright or could I aim for slightly lower accuracy?

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There isn't a massive difference even going 44 crit vs 44 acc. I'm going to do something similar myself.

I've never had issue with accuracy on dragoon and crit can make quite a significant difference in damage, but if you can't afford it I'd say skillspeed would be better than accuracy. I know a lot of people don't like ssp, but I have a ton of it and am quite fond of attacking so fast. :3

wish we had a guide for end game gearing. like how to get the drachen stuff etc etc

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Originally Posted by mero-ix

I've never had issue with accuracy on dragoon and crit can make quite a significant difference in damage, but if you can't afford it I'd say skillspeed would be better than accuracy. I know a lot of people don't like ssp, but I have a ton of it and am quite fond of attacking so fast. :3

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Yea, I just mean once you figure in a whole gear set, acc vs crit on weapon is only 3-4 points (stat weight) difference. Being able to sub HA boots for astrum, or astrum hands for HA to drop accuracy, etc. I went over this a while back, but the main advantage going with crit on novus is that none of the other weapons have acc, so most gear sets are already set up to accept no accuracy on weapon. You need more HA drops to make accuracy on weapon worth it, like the t9 chest xD

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Originally Posted by zohawn

wish we had a guide for end game gearing. like how to get the drachen stuff etc etc

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A lot of it just depends on luck from drops. The Drachen gear is from the DRG job quests, lv45 & 50. Wyrm gear is what you buy with mythology tomes, Astrum is bought with soldiery. The progression right now would be lv80 dungeon gear > first coil/ST/myth/soldiery until you get to item level 90 > more soldiery gear > Second coil.. You should be i90 minimum with i95 (turn 5, levi, animus, soldiery, etc) weapon to start turn 6.

Notable pieces for coil progression (off the top of my head): ST chest and pants, turn 4 helm and ring, turn 5 boots and wrist, Gloam ring and neck, Astrum armguards, ST belt.

Yeah Skill Speed sounds nice, might dump a bit of gil into the Determination atleast. I guess I'm not going to miss much if I went 15/20 Skill Speed instead of 15/20 Accuracy.

Edit: And miss much was an unintentional pun.

IMO I'd stay away from skill speed for a couple reasons. First it has diminishing returns, as it will drain TP faster (granted only an issue in longer fights and bards can TP song if needed.)

Second and more important reason is you need a ton of SS just to reduce your global cool down by even a fraction of a second! As an example increasing SS by 100 will only reduce your global cool down from 2.5 secs to 2.4 secs. All that extra SS still won't get you a extra skill in during BFB.

If you HAD to do stats on the novus other than det and crit, I'd go det and accuracy. Accuracy cap is going up with every patch, it will always be useful and give more flexibility with the rest of your gear.

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Originally Posted by TheKingSlayer

Second and more important reason is you need a ton of SS just to reduce your global cool down by even a fraction of a second! As an example increasing SS by 100 will only reduce your global cool down from 2.5 secs to 2.4 secs. All that extra SS still won't get you a extra skill in during BFB.

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My skillspeed is 492 and it's enough that I can now get in a second Phlebotomize right before B4B falls off. Never underestimate the power of button mashing! :cool:

Quick question,

will the Astrum belt be better (has no det), vs a Wolfram belt with

Savage Aim 4 (+9 Crit)
Heaven's Eye 4 (+9 Accuracy)
Savage Aim 3 (+6 Crit)
Heaven's Eye 3 (+6 Accuracy)
Savage Might 2 (+3 Determination) DET II ?

I know there's a STR difference, but i'm just curious.
I've added both up, pentamelded tassets are about 22.xxx while astrum belt are 21.xxx.
Is it worth it? That one point of difference.

Really find that SS on the Astrum belt useless. I currently am using the Weathered Astrum Belt, but am contemplating if i should waste my sand on it, or pentameld the tassets.

Thanks.

So, I'm on T8 now and I was looking up some videos and found this:

T8 DRG PoV

Is this a decent guide to go by? I understand that mechanic assignment will always be different, but based on his numbers, he's doing something right? Around the 2:30-3:30 area, he's clipping his dots a bit and did TT->VT->Dis right after blowing up a mine, then did ID->Dis->CT->Phleb->HT->TT->VT->FT->Phleb->then clipped Phleb to reapply with BFB with the rotation reborn combo, is that always the preferred method if you go off track? Just find a moment, clip something with the buffed version and get back to the original combo? I'm just trying to find ways to get better dps on T8 now, cause my highest has been 370 while normally in the 350-360 range. Normally save DFD for Dread, and boss, but I feel like I could be doing something better @.@
Any advice is appreciated.

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Originally Posted by snowybell

Quick question,

will the Astrum belt be better (has no det), vs a Wolfram belt with

Savage Aim 4 (+9 Crit)
Heaven's Eye 4 (+9 Accuracy)
Savage Aim 3 (+6 Crit)
Heaven's Eye 3 (+6 Accuracy)
Savage Might 2 (+3 Determination) DET II ?

I know there's a STR difference, but i'm just curious.
I've added both up, pentamelded tassets are about 22.xxx while astrum belt are 21.xxx.
Is it worth it? That one point of difference.

Really find that SS on the Astrum belt useless. I currently am using the Weathered Astrum Belt, but am contemplating if i should waste my sand on it, or pentameld the tassets.

Thanks.

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From what I have read in this topic, Pentamelded belt > everything till High Allagan Belt from T9.

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Originally Posted by snowybell

Quick question,

will the Astrum belt be better (has no det), vs a Wolfram belt with

Savage Aim 4 (+9 Crit)
Heaven's Eye 4 (+9 Accuracy)
Savage Aim 3 (+6 Crit)
Heaven's Eye 3 (+6 Accuracy)
Savage Might 2 (+3 Determination) DET II ?

I know there's a STR difference, but i'm just curious.
I've added both up, pentamelded tassets are about 22.xxx while astrum belt are 21.xxx.
Is it worth it? That one point of difference.

Really find that SS on the Astrum belt useless. I currently am using the Weathered Astrum Belt, but am contemplating if i should waste my sand on it, or pentameld the tassets.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

From what I have read in this topic, Pentamelded belt > everything till High Allagan Belt from T9.

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If you don't want to use the Sands of Time on the Weathered Astrum Belt or go through the expense of pentamelding a Wolfarm Belt, you can try going to ST and get The Guardian's Tassets of Maiming from the second boss. It's better than the Weathered Astrum Belt (19.9 to 19.026), but behind the Astrum Belt and the pentamelded Wolfarm Belt. However, that belt has 12 Determination where that W. Astrum Belt has 17 Skill Speed.

My group finally got our first T9 kill last night, and guess what dropped ;D

http://s8.postimg.org/r8sddvmcl/ffxi...014_005021.png

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Originally Posted by Noxotic

So, I'm on T8 now and I was looking up some videos and found this:
Is this a decent guide to go by? --snip--

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In that video their opening is a bit sloppy (using Life Surge directly after Leg Sweep), but yeah, that's the gist of it. (And that 1846 crit! str pots are OP lol.) No one's perfect, sometimes you'll clip your dots if you're not paying attention. Your dps is fine for your gear. Just find what works for you. It's not a contest, you're 1/8 of a group, just do your part. A lot of people will exaggerate their numbers anyway.

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Originally Posted by Zangetsu98763

My group finally got our first T9 kill last night, and guess what dropped ;D

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:l

Been downing it for weeks and we just get a bazillion WHM staffs. (Congrats btw!)

Is there a cap on damage no matter how high ilvl is? I'm at 106.

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Originally Posted by Noxotic

Any advice is appreciated.

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Its not good. TTT the dread, end of story, thats how you deal high damage. Tricky part is the 3rd one where you gotta clip things in order to be able to do a full TTT on the dread or like, when you ll be done with re applyin everything on the avatar it ll already be at 30% ish so good luck with that :p

That and the opener, ew

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Originally Posted by VaShawn

Is there a cap on damage no matter how high ilvl is? I'm at 106.

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No. I am at i106 and my strongest full thrusts (without potions, still gotta understand how to use them properly) reach 1650 or so. When my gear was lower, my strongest full thrusts barely reached 1300. There is no such thing.

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

No. I am at i106 and my strongest full thrusts (without potions, still gotta understand how to use them properly) reach 1650 or so. When my gear was lower, my strongest full thrusts barely reached 1300. There is no such thing.

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What's your gear? At i109 my full thrusts are doing 1650. I have all Soldiery except head (HA) on left side (belt not upgraded), all HA on right side except choker and ring, and Liberator.

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

No. I am at i106 and my strongest full thrusts (without potions, still gotta understand how to use them properly) reach 1650 or so. When my gear was lower, my strongest full thrusts barely reached 1300. There is no such thing.

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Is that with food? 1650 is pretty high.

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Originally Posted by snowybell

Is that with food? 1650 is pretty high.

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With food (Buttons in a blanket NQ) and in party, yes. Both values were reported in those "conditions". It is high, but that's why I said "strongest full thrusts" - they don't happen very often, but they do show the difference gear does.

My gear is, at least during coil since I need more accuracy:

Left side.
- Wyrm's helmet.
- Guardian's breastplate.
- Astrum gloves.
- Guardian's belt.
- Guardian's legs.
- High Allagan boots.

Right side.
- Ribbon of slaying.
- High Allagan earrings of slaying.
- High Allagan bracelet of slaying.
- Gloam ring.
- High Allagan ring of slaying.

Gae Bolg Novus, 31 Det and 44 Crit.

During T9 I also switch the boots to Weathered astrum to cap the accuracy needed.