I expect many of the Scions to be "retired" but not killed off. It paints you into a corner when you kill people when you do not have an amazing reason to do so. Too many times we have seen people killed in entertainment and they have to do incredible gyrations to bring them back. Retire them, lock them away, banished to another dimension, lost in time, etc. but do not kill.Quote:
Originally Posted by KitingGenbu
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09-20-2023, 07:05 AMHyperia
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09-20-2023, 07:36 AMVyrerusOnly when the killed characters are the draw, and the writers aren't capable of making a better one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperia
The Scions really aren't the draw of FFXIV. Like, sure, since SHB they've gotten a ton of stage time, and had plenty of CS time before then, too. But prior to SHB people were more interested in characters like Nero, Cid, Aymeric, Hien etc.
There's more than just them too, and there's plenty of folks in FFXIV's orbit that would go bananas to see them featured as MSQ companions over the Scions. Like they could probably unceremoniously kill Thancred, and the playerbase wouldn't mind as long as someone else filled his shoes, at least until the obligatory, "Oh I loved Thancred all along!" starts to crop up from the same people who said back in 5.x, "They need to kill Thancred specifically because I hate him." -
09-20-2023, 01:55 PMKaliesto
Page 851, story still needs to be talked about I guess.
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09-20-2023, 02:19 PMMaltothoris
Doesn't even have to be killed but something to remind them of mistakes and what not. Imagine if Alphinaud realized sooner than the rest that it wasn't us during that whole Garlemald part and when Zenos in our character's body makes a strike, he pushes her out of the way and he loses an eye or something like that.
Like others have said, if you go around just killing and killing you get that Game of Thrones feeling of apathy. Likewise without death or at least some sort of changeup to the cast, things kind of get stale. Look at the trust duty for the aetherfont. You have Thancred just appear out of nowhere to be the tank since Graha is elsewhere. You know nothing is going to happen to them with the Trusts being a thing. -
09-20-2023, 02:22 PMKaliesto
I don't see the point of killing off characters when its not necessary coming from the playerbase, that is the story writer's personal preference if its needed for some reason.
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09-20-2023, 02:53 PMTheodric
I disagree with the idea that a story doesn't need death to be good. Some of the most iconic stories throughout human history have had stakes in the form of character death - including major protagonists. The aversion to both major and minor characters being at risk of dying strikes me as a recent thing and I don't think it's healthy for characters to be held hostage in such a manner.
It's reached the point where an actual apocalypse can occur and it's still pushed that such a dire threat isn't a good reason to kill off anyone important.
I'd say a healthy balance is needed. I'd care more about the protagonists if they weren't obviously going to walk away from even the most dire of threats bragging about lacking even a scratch to show for it. That isn't interesting to me. Especially if they do die only to come back five minutes later. -
09-20-2023, 10:35 PMReynTime
Normally I don't like when stories kill characters left and right like game of throne does, because it feels like it's done for sake of being edgy, and I think death needs to be treated with more respect than some stories treat it.
But FFXIV doesn't have an excuse. They have at least one fakeout every expansion, and if no one of the main cast ever dies those fakeouts are just predictable and pointless. If not an annoying waste of time. -
09-20-2023, 11:03 PMMikkoAkureThe vast majority of RPGs and even FF games don't have death among the major protagonists and aren't considered inferior games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
You claimed that FFXII is your favorite FF game but it has just 2 minor character deaths, 1 of whom turns out to be a traitor just before dying and the other turns out to have been looking to be redeemed in death for a long time having been originally on the antagonists' side and personally responsible for a city's destruction. Unless you're really going to count the random tutorial soldier in the first 10 minutes of the game who is only revealed to be less-than-random postmortem and wastes away off-screen. The end even has 2 major characters who "die" only to come back 5 minutes later.
Minor characters introduced in the expansions still have the capability of dying in FFXIV and I don't believe the game is shy about killing them off where applicable. But considering their staying power and the nature of the game as an MMO where practically all of them are entangled in unrelated side stories, I don't see any of the main cast being killed any time soon. Especially since the cast was codified in ShB after Papalymo's death and Lyse's depature. -
09-20-2023, 11:21 PMTheodric
I've already discussed this with you in the past, so I'm just going to refer you to that very same exchange:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6292835
You can follow the quotes within to find the other times the same subject arose. -
09-21-2023, 12:42 AMMikkoAkureI'm pointing out that your disagreement with the notion that "a story doesn't need death to be interesting" itself is interesting because of your comment from just the other day that FFXII is your favorite FF game and you completely avoided the topic by linking to your own post from a few months ago that is just a collection of your own quotes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
That very same game has fake-out deaths for major characters like you had just complained about and all but 2 minor "protagonist-aligned" characters survive the main course of the game. It's almost as if the quality of a story is independent of the death count and stakes can exist without having to prove that the stakes are high by having someone die.