All Greed on Alliance loot

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Originally Posted by Rogatum

This is what does not make sense I do not recall many people asking for such a change (having the loot system changed to greed), prior to the change discussion on this topic seemed fairly rare. Most people that were in favor of the need system were defending it, but also did not care either way. Maybe I just have a different view as to what a personal attack is, but town outcries wins does not seem like a personal attack, or a jab as you put it. It is cool that you made an observation, but you lanced that observation with the view that the comment was meant as a personal attack. As you said more people were against the change, so yeah the need side was a town outcry. It is cool they reverted the change, just seems like some people want to view those that were in favor of greed all as unreasonable.

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It was also not first changed because of any of our opinions but because somehow it was better for the japanese community which seems to be false since most of them disliked it too. They said that we should provide them with feedback to the greed only change and we did. And since this was a change that did not make sense for most of all and made most situation worse too we were telling them why it was bad. After it went live (even with a big amount of dislike) they said that people should try it out and post their opinion again after that. So that exactly what we did. In the end most people did not like the change at all and it was thanks to our feedback that it was changed again.

We were loud (all over the playerbase not just this forum) because it was a bad change that negatively affected a lot of people but also because it was something that could easily be undone again.

The one posters sentece about whining people was totally unnecessary and rude.

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Originally Posted by Rogatum

Most people that were in favor of the need system were defending it, but also did not care either way.

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Um, I don't think that's a correct assessment. Based on comments and opinions shared here I'd find that way more people who were in favor of "Need" were asking for it to be changed back and not that they "didn't care either way." After all, why comment at all if you don't care?

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Maybe I just have a different view as to what a personal attack is, but town outcries wins does not seem like a personal attack, or a jab as you put it.

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Perhaps. The comment gave off a subtext of "crybabies." Because literally the criers term doesn't make much sense here.

Crier and "outcry" to my knowledge are two different things. "Outcry" wasn't the term used, although that holds a much more passive tone. But, semantics.

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...just seems like some people want to view those that were in favor of greed all as unreasonable.

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No, and its not necessarily fair to imagine them all as such. But based on the rhetoric I've been following here on the forums on the topic of the loot rules since it went live (or even revealed), a lot of those who bothered engaging in extended arguments against "Need" did come off as unreasonable (don't ask me to hand-pick examples), especially once confronted with an opposing example/opinion.

Honestly, this change didn't really affect me at all. My main job has full mendacity, so it's not like I need any of the gear from the raid to gear him up. I've just been greeding on tank gear to help fill in gaps in my tank gear. Only real difference is I'll have less chance to get that gear if tanks want it for upgrade or glam.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

After all, why comment at all if you don't care?

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In my case I made comments on the subject defending greed since I did prefer the greed system being as I do not feel one persons need is greater then another. (That is water under the bridge) Even while defending the system I did state I would not lose sleep if it was reverted and fully expect it to be reverted (which it was). I think a large handful of people in favor of the greed rule set stated their opinions and defense simply because the change happened, not that they were extremely passionate about the change. IF that makes sense for example in my case I did defend the system I did care about the change, but deep down I knew it was not going to last so I did not care. LOL hope that makes sense, know it is a contradiction. In terms of getting loot need works far more in my favor since all I have to bring the job I want to gear up.

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Originally Posted by Rogatum

Most people that were in favor of the need system were defending it, but also did not care either way.

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This literally makes no sense. Why would you defend something if you don't care?

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Originally Posted by Rogatum

just seems like some people want to view those that were in favor of greed all as unreasonable.

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The truth is some of them were. Some people said things that basically were "with greed only I can gear up classes I don't like playing". And they were entitled enough to think that they deserve to roll on gear for a class they have no intention of touching with identical loot priority as someone who is actually presently playing it.

Others said stuff like "this makes it easier to gear several classes at once because I know at least a few things I want will drop and I can roll on all of them instead of only some". While I strongly disagree with the greed only system I can certainly appreciate that point of view because it can potentially make gearing up easier if you're the kind of player who plays a lot of classes across all the roles.

There's a reason that mmo loot systems had evolved into Need/Greed over just free for all...
The change to greed only was a step backward in terms of looting systems.


I still like the ideas posted about some sort of token to let you choose exactly which piece you get in some fasion.

Hot-fix tomorrow, and hopefully a farewell to this loot system! \o/

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Word count, and mobile do not mix well.

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Is that an unreasonable though some might not enjoy playing certain classes in 24 man content, but enjoy them other content. We all feel we are entitled to some degree, just a matter of how you look at it. I think it is reasonable to want to gear up a class one might not enjoy playing in 24 man content. While I am not sure if this is because of the loot change or how new it was my queue times as a dps player did improve, and I was able to slightly gear up my healer while getting zero for my rdm across numerous runs, that was an RNG issue. You may not like it, I do not think it is fair to say something is unreasonable because you do not like it. I made the most out of the change, it was short lived.

I find it unlikely that someone who doesn't want to run their healer in 24-player raids would take that selfsame healer to run Savage, which again begs the question of what do you then NEED that gear for. But people seem content running around on their classes these days so I obviously don't know the first thing about anything.
And again the point remains that you still can gear your healer, the Greed button isn't going anywhere. It's not like it became Need or Pass. Did you lose it to a Healer who did have the Need option? Well. They did deign to bring their healer...

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I find it unlikely that someone who doesn't want to run their healer in 24-player raids would take that selfsame healer to run Savage, which again begs the question of what do you then NEED that gear for. But people seem content running around on their classes these days so I obviously don't know the first thing about anything.
And again the point remains that you still can gear your healer, the Greed button isn't going anywhere. It's not like it became Need or Pass. Did you lose it to a Healer who did have the Need option? Well. They did deign to bring their healer...

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I think that is where this issue stems from, you ask what do I need the gear for, and my answer is does anyone really need 24 man gear, or is it more so a want. Also same could also be said with greed all people did get the gear they wanted from the 24, sure it might have taken longer but like anything with a variance it might have been quicker for some.