Black Mage

SMN AoE is better in general, this is much true. But do remember that people's favorites you know what are really bad with Bane. BLM still excels in AoE over many jobs, even over SMN depending on the conditions. Even then, making BLM AoE better won't fix any of the issues listed on this thread's OP. But I do see where your claims come from.

“Damage as utility”/“Pure damage” should include AOE damage, correct? Or am I wrong?

BLMs sustained AOE is the strongest, but as I mentioned in the previous post, trash pulls and AOE phases are always “bursted” down, not sustained. This will always put SMN on top of BLM, unless the SMN doesn’t even get to dump the stacks (so less than 10 seconds, in which case who even cares lol)

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Originally Posted by Llugen

“Damage as utility”/“Pure damage” should include AOE damage, correct? Or am I wrong?

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You're not wrong. But that is also non-issue on a game that the majority of the content are on single target centered encounters. If potential changes came to fix BLM's issues happen to make their AoE better so be it, but it shoudln't be the focus. It's like how cheapening BRD's TP costs on their single target skills let them eventually Quick Nock better in Heavensward.

Well that’s part of why I think a fix to Freeze is warranted but not much else is really needed. Maybe using a Thunder IV cloud does extra damage to a target that already has the Thunder IV dot. That could be neat.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

A permanent magic vulnerability wouldn't be much different from the permanent physical type dmg that the physical classes have atm and that is the idea behind it

Also personally I don't think it would make casters that OP compared to other comps

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I think a better solution is to put a 10% non-stackable magic vuln up with 100% uptime in the 3 casters (in BLM it can be on BlizzIV), nerf SMN potency so they deal the same dmg they are doing now, while BLM and RDM will be doing ~10% more damage closing the gap between the casters, giving the role something powerful that only they can bring (like only physical ranged can bring Refresh for example) and it also somewhat preserves our utility as the selfish class because while magic vuln up is party utility it'll be something that is more attached to the role rather than the job.

Rework idea for Convert:
Convert - For 20 seconds spells will cost HP instead of MP, ends if casted again. Recast: 120 seconds.
It gives us some kind of a 2 minute burst phase that lines with Hypercharge, Trick Attack, Chain Stratagem, etc. and it makes the spell riskier but much more powerful (it'll give like 8 extra fire IV rather than 2 but the HP cost will be massive), the only problem is Foul timing but it can be fixed by making Foul oGCD during Convert or something like that.

Well ye that was what I think should be added, I was answering to aguy saying that a 100% magic vulnerability would be too OP

I'm with whoever said there's no reason to nerf SMN potency only to buff BLM especially and apparently RDM by proxy because of just how strong the physical meta is.

The casters NEED to compete for a spot. SMN can only just barely do that as it stands now, so nerfing it is a bad idea.

That Convert proposal would be REALLY taxing on the healer(s) in the group and would basically be the new #floortank trying to maximize it during big party hits like Almagest. This wouldn't be very fair in the end (as healers want to utilize burst phases as well); if anything of that sort, just make Convert function like Thin Air, or reduce the MP cost of skills by 90%.

Convert just feels so out of place without Raging and with the rotation change. It's like they didn't even bother to think how it would interact with BLM's kit.

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Originally Posted by Llugen

“Damage as utility”/“Pure damage” should include AOE damage, correct? Or am I wrong?

BLMs sustained AOE is the strongest, but as I mentioned in the previous post, trash pulls and AOE phases are always “bursted” down, not sustained. This will always put SMN on top of BLM, unless the SMN doesn’t even get to dump the stacks (so less than 10 seconds, in which case who even cares lol)

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one of the reason when i have a smn in party, i just go straight triple flare after f3 even tho i have 2 umbral hearts to spare for f2. this way its playing tugowar for who depleting the trash mobs hp faster and more lol

Well and this may come off as selfish but blm should output more damage for both Single target and aoe, it is all that we have to "bring". Smn has great utility so damage should never have been so much higher.
I do like the proposed changes you guys have said for freeze and personally i would like flare potency back along with adjustments to Thunder.
FireIV also feels weak to me atm. not sure about you guys