It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

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Originally Posted by Xylira

It's simply a matter of opinion, on both sides, yet many of you can't even concede that other people are well within their right to disagree with your point of view. You just stick your fingers in your ears and go on rabid tirades of personal attacks against anyone that doesn't wholly agree with you.

Seriously, and I mean this sincerely, you need to chill out. It's not that big of a deal to see other people's glamours.

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You say all this after calling the side you disagree with “emotional” and telling them to “touch grass” among other things.

Little late to claim the high ground

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

So sad for you, it does! The devs will never implement your request and you'll continue to have to see my character as I choose, unless you mod. If you mod, you can't even mention this to me in game so whatever.

Anyway, as entertaining as this was to reply to nonsense, I really am out. Find some other source of entertainment I guess, or maybe circle-jerk in the 3 to 5 of you in agreement. lol

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Except, it doesn't! Shocker I know. Whatever I do on my computer has no bearing on you. Is muting you taking away your agency? No. Is removing your name taking away your agency? No. I can remove your hard earned titles from my display. Is that taking away your agency? No. Yet somehow in your imagination covering your glamour is "taking away your agency". Please.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Except, it doesn't! Shocker I know. Whatever I do on my computer has no bearing on you. Is muting you taking away your agency? No. Is removing your name taking away your agency? No. I can remove your hard earned titles from my display. Is that taking away your agency? No.

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At this point, zzzzzzzzzzzz. I know you love chatting with me but I'm sure I'm pretty much out of daily posts for the day. Hope you'll not be too sad until tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

At this point, zzzzzzzzzzzz. I know you love chatting with me but I'm sure I'm pretty much out of daily posts for the day. Hope you'll not be too sad until tomorrow.

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Ah the "I have no argument so I'm going to act like I'm not interested" tactic. Classic. Either way, you won't be missed.

I do find it entertaining that both sides of this thread...can pretty much just apply the same logic to one another on almost every point.
So its literally moot, and no discussion here is really productive.

Still again, if its a feature that gets put in...whatever. Thats up to the Devs
But on the conversation OF putting it in, I disagree and think its just more sensible, and cheaper, for people to just look the other way at glams they don't like. They don't harm you in any way for existing, just like the Argument that the feature wouldn't harm anybody if it was made.
However, 1 opinion would be less expensive for the Devs and the Company.

This isn't about me "not liking it" its an opinion that there is in fact a solution, that wouldnt cost the company money and resources.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Ah the "I have no argument so I'm going to act like I'm not interested" tactic. Classic. Either way, you won't be missed.

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I'm interested, but again, I don't really have to be invested. This will never come to pass :)

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I'm interested, but again, I don't really have to be invested. This will never come to pass :)

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Whatever you say. Seems you have enough posts to make attempted snark yet not enough to provide an actual argument.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Whatever you say. Seems you have enough posts to make attempted snark yet not enough to provide an actual argument.

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As do you it seems. What's the point of even replying at this point?
I've made lots of arguments. You don't like them, but doesn't mean I didn't provide an argument. The winning one I'm sure, as the game is in the state I like it already :)

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Originally Posted by Joven

Ah the "I have no argument so I'm going to act like I'm not interested" tactic. Classic. Either way, you won't be missed.

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Hey, this looks familiar!

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Originally Posted by Joven

I don't need a counter argument for such an idiotic retort.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Just saying you dont have one, with extra steps.

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Originally Posted by Joven

No, it just means your reply was idiotic and not worth a proper response. Take that however you want, I don't care.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Calling my Post idiotic instead of refuting it with a Proper Response literally proves...you had no Counter-argument.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Difference here is chat is a source of potential harassment, racism, misogyny, homophobia, etc. and it's easier for the devs to give people tools to avoid this as much as possible. People always had a choice not to listen to people or speech they find offensive or irritating. It's why I block so many people I find annoying on these forums.

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Yeah and some people are weird and think that someone running through Coerthas in a bikini is offensive too, because it deliberately makes fun of the brittle integrity of the fictional world and draws attention to how abstruse it is when game mechanics trump in-universe logic. They thus break immersion, inherently, which draws people out of the experience and they find that offensive.

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People existing in the world wearing game-approved outfits isn't comparable.

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The context matters. A bikini on Costa del Sol makes sense, a bikini worn by a character during a blizzard in Coerthas uses the tools provided by the game to break immersion. Now breaking immersion isn't harassment. But some people are still offended by it. So we could provide them safe spaces to let them emerge whenever they feel secure enough that they handle other people's glam on their own voluntarily.

Cash shop items are some people's nightmare, because even though they could be chalked up to being just unique attire from a different culture or whatever, the fact that these players know they are from the cash shop could cause them discomfort.

Men in dresses are a big problem for many people who say that they believe in traditional gendered attire. They get uncomfortable every time they see a Hrothgar in Manderville bunny suits.

Beyond even glam, there are probably makeup options that on the right character would deeply offend people.

Now you might say: these people are not worth consideration. Everything Square Enix allows is approved by me.

But then I have the ultimate example for you: Lalafell in underwear.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

As do you it seems. What's the point of even replying at this point?
I've made lots of arguments. You don't like them, but doesn't mean I didn't provide an argument. The winning one I'm sure, as the game is in the state I like it already :)

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Just because this isn't in the game yet doesn't mean it can't be added later. That doesn't mean you've "won" anything.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Just because this isn't in the game yet doesn't mean it can't be added later. That doesn't mean you've "won" anything.

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At this moment in time, and for the 10 years of FFXIV running, and ??? years in every other MMO I've ever played - I won. No one can remove my outfits and force my character into generic clothing through dev-approved means.

Feels great. Might go buy some chicken outfits and bikinis later.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

At this moment in time, and for the 10 years of FFXIV running, and ??? years in every other MMO I've ever played - I won. No one can remove my outfits and force my character into generic clothing through dev-approved means.

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But you're fine with 3rd party tools doing it

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

At this moment in time, and for the 10 years of FFXIV running, and ??? years in every other MMO I've ever played - I won. No one can remove my outfits and force my character into generic clothing through dev-approved means.

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Maybe because it hasn't been suggested until now? Also GW2 is still a thing whether you like it or not. Regardless of it's intended function it still removes your outfit and puts you in generic clothing.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Maybe because it hasn't been suggested until now? Also GW2 is still a thing whether you like it or not. Regardless of it's intended function it still removes your outfit and puts you in generic clothing.

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Thread is almost 3 years old... ROFL.

Also players criticizing devs for adding "lore-breaking" outfits has always been a thing, along with people wishing they didn't have to look at "immersion breaking" outfits. Know what? Devs dont care. people buy the outfits and wear them, and that's the end of it.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Thread is almost 3 years old... ROFL.

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And? Also, I thought you were almost out of posts and weren't going to use any more here?

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

At what point does the rabbit hole end? I don't want to see Lalafells in my party because they break my immersion. I don't believe they would actually be effective in combat and it's ruining my fantasy. Can I have them replaced with Hyurs? I don't like glowing weapons. They're too bright. Can I turn off weapon particle effects? I don't like certain hairstyles like like the pompadour. Can I force everyone to be bald? DNC is a joke job and I don't think my warrior of light would be supported by a DNC. Can I make them replace their animations with BRD's?

At the end of the day, it's selfish to demand others look the way you want them to look in a game that, like it or not, is a multiplayer game.

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Hey if you do not want to see Lalafells on your end, I would support that cause here is the kicker cosmic changes only seen on your screen does not alter what I see on mine. I will still be a lalafell. I also agree I wish we could switch up weapons and animations between jobs, would also love an option to remove glow effects also.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

No one is requesting any of those things, you're being hyperbolic and putting words in people's mouths. Why don't you try actually responding to what was suggested instead of coming up with some ridiculous slippery slope scenario?

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I didn't say anyone was requesting any of those things. Where in that post did I say "This is exactly what you are asking for? This is verbatim what you said?" Stop saying someone's putting words in your mouth when no one attempted to do so. I'm saying the proposed suggestion is a slippery slope to those following scenarios. At what point have we crossed a line where you imposing your desires onto other paying players becomes too much?

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Hey if you do not want to see Lalafells on your end, I would support that cause here is the kicker cosmic changes only seen on your screen does not alter what I see on mine. I will still be a lalafell. I also agree I wish we could switch up weapons and animations between jobs, would also love an option to remove glow effects also.

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Glow and particle effects I would agree with, as an accessiblity option. The bright flashes of lights can be really troublesome to some players health-wise.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Glow and particle effects I would agree with, as an accessiblity option. The bright flashes of lights can be really troublesome to some players health-wise.

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Perhaps dimming or having some sort of minor detail. I think a value to having glowing weapons is people want to differentiate the weapon from the vanilla version. I agree that the bright lights can be too much, but just having some way to identify that your version of the Titania weapon is different than the one dropped from the fight.

Remember 5 pages ago when this guy said he was completely done and leaving the thread, then went on to dump his daily post limit into arguing in this thread?

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Remember 5 pages ago when this guy said he was completely done and leaving the thread, then went on to dump his daily post limit into arguing in this thread?

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Pepperidge Farms remembers.

I understand the whole immersion thing. It doesn't really bother me, although I'll have to admit that I'm thrown out of the story if I see a fellow player wearing a bikini during MSQ trial/dungeon cutscenes.

That's not to say that I haven't made my fair share of "inappropriate" glamours (Lady Manderville outfit with a fat chocobo head, anyone?), but I understand where the want for a disable option is coming from.

If someone wants to disable my glamours? Sure. I personally don't care. My own gaming experience remains the same regardless.

Honestly, I feel more uncomfortable with the sexualized mods out there that alter character models, but even then it doesn't bother me much because I can't see that person's screen.

By the way, what happens when the response is to just wear glamour gear as normal gear instead of glamour? Or people start undergearing with whatever will keep them in range of content? Doesn't this create a very unhealthy retaliation effort?

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Originally Posted by ronibosch

I understand the whole immersion thing. It doesn't really bother me, although I'll have to admit that I'm thrown out of the story if I see a fellow player wearing a bikini during MSQ trial/dungeon cutscenes.

That's not to say that I haven't made my fair share of "inappropriate" glamours (Lady Manderville outfit with a fat chocobo head, anyone?), but I understand where the want for a disable option is coming from.

If someone wants to disable my glamours? Sure. I personally don't care. My own gaming experience remains the same regardless.

Honestly, I feel more uncomfortable with the sexualized mods out there that alter character models, but even then it doesn't bother me much because I can't see that person's screen.

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Okay, just some curiously here. Knowing this is a potential issue for some in MSQ, would you feel better about your 'questionable" glamour being used in a MSQ dungeon or trial, knowing full well they have the option to hide it, if they didn't like it?

To be fair, I'll answer first. I would feel better about it, if I wanted to wear 'questionable' glamour in such an instance and people had the option to hide glamour.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

By the way, what happens when the response is to just wear glamour gear as normal gear instead of glamour? Or people start undergearing with whatever will keep them in range of content? Doesn't this create a very unhealthy retaliation effort?

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Fair point. You can kick them.

It might also be considered not doing your job in a dungeon, which is also a no no, like refusing to tank or heal is.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

By the way, what happens when the response is to just wear glamour gear as normal gear instead of glamour? Or people start undergearing with whatever will keep them in range of content? Doesn't this create a very unhealthy retaliation effort?

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If they're trying to run dungeons and raids with level 1 gear I kick them and report to GMs for grief tactics.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

If they're trying to run dungeons and raids with level 1 gear I kick them and report to GMs for grief tactics.

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Is it griefing? If they got in the dungeon, they've hit the level requirements which is the standard the game has established is the bar to entry. They have all the stats required to clear it, presumably. What if they don't have better gear? Can I kick you if you aren't ilvl 630 in my dungeon? You have the ability to equip stronger gear.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Is it griefing? If they got in the dungeon, they've hit the level requirements which is the standard the game has established is the bar to entry. They have all the stats required to clear it, presumably. What if they don't have better gear?

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Yes, in that case it would be griefing. SE isn't dumb, and they will make judgement calls like that.

And like I said, you can kick the person. SE would not ban people for kicking someone without decent enough gear, even if they meet ilvl.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Is it griefing? If they got in the dungeon, they've hit the level requirements which is the standard the game has established is the bar to entry. They have all the stats required to clear it, presumably. What if they don't have better gear? Can I kick you if you aren't ilvl 630 in my dungeon? You have the ability to equip stronger gear.

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If they meet the ilvl requirement how are they undergeared? You're pulling these weird impossible situations out of your imagination.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Yes, in that case it would be griefing. SE isn't dumb, and they will make judgement calls like that.

And like I said, you can kick the person. SE would not ban people for kicking someone without decent enough gear, even if they meet ilvl.

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You're assuming the other members of your team will agree to kicking the player, which won't always happen. If their stats are high enough to get into the dungeon, then they're high enough to clear. You will still have to deal with that regularly, now just with the hassle of trying to fight off people with inconsistent success every time you run into those players in dungeons. What that really fix your issues with immersion?

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Okay, just some curiously here. Knowing this is a potential issue for some in MSQ, would you feel better about your 'questionable" glamour being used in a MSQ dungeon or trial, knowing full well they have the option to hide it, if they didn't like it?

To be fair, I'll answer first. I would feel better about it, if I wanted to wear 'questionable' glamour in such an instance and people had the option to hide glamour.

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Hmm...interesting question! Yeah, I would. Especially if I'm matched up with first-timers.

I might even be more willing to try out more daring/silly glamours, since mine tend to be pretty conservative/lore-friendly. Like, do they see a regular Viera or a rabbit costume? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Xylira

My last post on this ridiculous thread, because I refuse to feed this idiocy any further.

I've stated my points as to why I disagree with being able to disable seeing other's glamours, primarily because it undermines the spirit of the whole system. Yet you lot refuse to even acknowledge my point of view. In fact many of you keep claiming I haven't even presented an argument which is either dismissive and disingenuous at best, or delusional at worst. I've actually acknowledged that I understand your concerns, and I agree that it's not always fun seeing ridiculous glams all the time. That said, I simply disagree that chipping away at the integrity of the system by letting people optionally disable seeing other's glamours is more beneficial than harmful to the spirit of it.

It's simply a matter of opinion, on both sides, yet many of you can't even concede that other people are well within their right to disagree with your point of view. You just stick your fingers in your ears and go on rabid tirades of personal attacks against anyone that doesn't wholly agree with you.

Seriously, and I mean this sincerely, you need to chill out. It's not that big of a deal to see other people's glamours.

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You do understand that your stance is largely the same line of reasoning people have issues with accessibility features added to games? Do not like making assumptions but I largely do think most people are in favor of more accessibility even if it comes at the cost of the spirit of the game because it is largely optional. The spirit of the game is still intact for those that want it.

Granted, I am not saying accessibility and this are even in the same ballpark in terms of need or usefulness just saying at the core spirit of the game reasoning has never really been a good argument to not do something if it is optional.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

If they meet the ilvl requirement how are they undergeared? You're pulling these weird impossible situations out of your imagination.

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Because your ilvl is the average equipment level of all you are wearing. Add your weapon and accessories, plus potentially your hat or gloves which a lot of people may not bother to worry about, and the only level 1 gear someone could be wearing would be the body, pants, and feet. And that's assuming their glamour is level 1. It could be level 60. People can find dupes at random levels to try and imitate the outfit they want to wear.

This is something other people have brought up being an actual problem, unlike what this thread is referring to, which is players tricking the DF into only pulling Crystal Tower alliance raids by de-equipping some of their armor so their ilvl is high enough for Syrcus Tower but not high enough for World of Darkness and beyond.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

You're assuming the other members of your team will agree to kicking the player, which won't always happen. If their stats are high enough to get into the dungeon, then they're high enough to clear. You will still have to deal with that regularly, now just with the hassle of trying to fight off people with inconsistent success every time you run into those players in dungeons. What that really fix your issues with immersion?

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People are 100% going to kick someone undergeared.

And once again, it is reportable. SE sees someone trying to force their 'expression' on someone that potentially doesn't want it and at the same time hampering a run to do so.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

People are 100% going to kick someone undergeared.

And once again, it is reportable. SE sees someone trying to force their 'expression' on someone that potentially doesn't want it and at the same time hampering a run to do so.

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Kind of like how you're trying to force your 'expression' onto my character?

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Originally Posted by Xylira

Seriously, and I mean this sincerely, you need to chill out. It's not that big of a deal to see other people's glamours.

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Okay, well, let's allow for complete expression then. Let's take away the ability to ignore people. Want to ignore/block someone who's harassing you? Too bad, they're just expressing themselves. Don't want to see RMT spam in Limsa chat? Dude, they're just expressing themselves, chill out and go touch grass. Let's also take away the option for a profanity filter while we're at it.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Kind of like how you're trying to force your 'expression' onto my character?

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Not sure why you are pointing out me specifically, since I was talking in generalities.

But anyway, no you would still have your glam on your screen.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Is it griefing? If they got in the dungeon, they've hit the level requirements which is the standard the game has established is the bar to entry. They have all the stats required to clear it, presumably. What if they don't have better gear? Can I kick you if you aren't ilvl 630 in my dungeon? You have the ability to equip stronger gear.

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It is possible to cheese your iLVL. Queue in gear that meets the requirement, then switch your gear after you've queued. People do it all the time to get lower level alliance raids. So yes, someone queueing with appropriate iLVL and then changing gear to be all iLVL 1 glamour pieces is griefing.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Kind of like how you're trying to force your 'expression' onto my character?

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No one's forcing anything on your character. You will not see it. You will continue to go on unaffected, as always.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Not sure why you are pointing out me specifically, since I was talking in generalities.

But anyway, no you would still have your glam on your screen.

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What's the point if no one else can see it though? I wouldn't have gotten glamour off the mogstation, or invest any amount of time into farming things like treasure dungeons in the past if it was just for me. Why not just create a glamour-less server that does not feature a cross-world DF, and if you want to play without glamour, you can move there?

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

What's the point if no one else can see it though? I wouldn't have gotten glamour off the mogstation, or invest any amount of time into farming things like treasure dungeons in the past if it was just for me. Why not just create a glamour-less server that does not feature a cross-world DF, and if you want to play without glamour, you can move there?

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The point is for you and those that want to see it.

Why do you want someone to see it, when they don't want to see it? It's a negative experience for them on their screen. Not yours.