What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think it'll be pretty worthy of an eyeroll if Golbez proves to be yet another antagonist who fails to accomplish any meaningful on screen kills. I highly suspect that the development team are banking on the nostalgia of a cool and flashy fight with memorable music to buy time until the new expansion arrives.

Supposedly some form of 'great change' is coming, though the existing trend has made any consequences indirectly work out in favour of the protagonists - such as Garlemald being destroyed, the Ancients being subjected to Venat's reprehensible actions and even the 'corruption' of the Lightwardens.

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Golbez in FFXIV is a complete mockery of his original incarnation in FFIV. Not to mention that having us go after what is, as far as I can tell, the current most powerful voidsent will leave us with practically nothing in terms of other antagonists that are strong enough to be a threat without a power reduction of some kind.

At this point I have 0 confidence that this will happen. One easy win after another has led me to believe that come 6.4, we will go to the moon after eating ice cream and drinking coca cola with the polar bears on the isle of Haam and then Golbez traps zero in a crystal (oh no) we fight him and break her out with the power of dynamis. Bonus points if Meteion somehow shows up mid fight which isn't beyond the realm of possibility - we've seen how often Ishikawa has insisted on bringing Hermes back into the spotlight so I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if she began enforcing the junior writers to do the same with Meteion for the patch MSQ.

Naturally no one in the current party will die but Zero might become the shining Paladin Cecilia because having any dark themed classes in the group is too scary (bracing myself for if someone proceeds to gaslight us with Y'shtola being a sorceress being even remotely equivalent). I also suspect that Golbez's attempt to link the Source and the Void will probably fail, but if it succeeds that brings us back to the issue of nothing from the 13th besides Golbez posing any real threat.

Thus we go into 7.0 with the Alphinauficated Estinien, Vrtra who is probably still sad about his sister, Paladin Zero, "sassy" Y'shtola, the twins because of course, G'raha Tia to take us Taco Bell in the New World, and Krile to stoically nod in response to Y'shtola's lectures and even possibly give some herself.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Golbez in FFXIV is a complete mockery of his original incarnation in FFIV. Not to mention that having us go after what is, as far as I can tell, the current most powerful voidsent will leave us with practically nothing in terms of other antagonists that are strong enough to be a threat without a power reduction of some kind.

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Honestly curious as to what you've based this comment on? To be clear, I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong - not at all. Fact is, I'm wholly unfamiliar with FFIV and therefore only know bits and pieces from comments made in reference to said game here and elsewhere.

I mean, so far as FFXIV is concerned, we haven't really seen him DO anything yet. At this point he's done little more than keep Azdaja in a 'cage' for a very long time, drop somewhat vague hints regarding his plans and otherwise had the archfiends (attempt to) do his dirty work.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Honestly curious as to what you've based this comment on? To be clear, I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong - not at all. Fact is, I'm wholly unfamiliar with FFIV and therefore only know bits and pieces from comments made in reference to said game here and elsewhere.

I mean, so far as FFXIV is concerned, we haven't really seen him DO anything yet. At this point he's done little more than keep Azdaja in a 'cage' for a very long time, drop somewhat vague hints regarding his plans and otherwise had the archfiends (attempt to) do his dirty work.

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To make a long story short, this is what Golbez manages to accomplish not even a third of the way into FFIV whereas, as you mention, he hasn't done much in FFXIV and his story is nearly over.

Edit: also interesting to note is that more compelling drama happened in this short video than it has in the entirety of this patches cycle.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Honestly curious as to what you've based this comment on? To be clear, I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong - not at all. Fact is, I'm wholly unfamiliar with FFIV and therefore only know bits and pieces from comments made in reference to said game here and elsewhere.

I mean, so far as FFXIV is concerned, we haven't really seen him DO anything yet. At this point he's done little more than keep Azdaja in a 'cage' for a very long time, drop somewhat vague hints regarding his plans and otherwise had the archfiends (attempt to) do his dirty work.

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In FFIV Golbez comes across as chessmaster villain, managing to manipulate people from afar into doing what he wants, even manages to brainwash Kain to turn against Cecil. He stays a step ahead due to this the entire game, and it's only once he's KO'd at a specific point near the endgame when it's revealed that he's been brainwashed himself by the actual big bad of the game. Basically, he's a very manipulative individual, but due to his own brainwashing, we can't be certain all of it was his own doing. Now compare that to here, where he has...well, been manipulating people and played us to the point where it looks like we won't be able to get there to stop him. So he's actually been played pretty close to his FFIV self, which makes me question what aveyond has an issue with here.

EDIT: Ahh, I see. Well we don't know what his endgame plan is yet aveyond. What he sets in motion may have long standing repercussions on the Source. Since 6.4 is going to be the end of the Void storyline, we'll probably find out when it releases soon. A bit too early to complain about enigmatic villain being enigmatic, especially when it wasn't obvious why he wanted the crystals originally in FFIV either.

IV Golbez was, though brainwashed, still the one in the proverbial pilot seat. All the manipulation and subterfuge was his own idea. What Zemus did was prey on Golbez's insecurities and eat away at feelings for his family, which in turn eroded his sense of morality. After that, it was simply a matter of giving him a directive to follow. Everything that came after was Golbez's own skills at work, albeit toward an end he would never have sought if not under the thumb of another.

The crappy 3D version of the game has a couple flashbacks in it that give some details on how things went down. Then you've got the After Years, which contains even more information on Golbez.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

IV Golbez was, though brainwashed, still the one in the proverbial pilot seat. All the manipulation and subterfuge was his own idea. What Zemus did was prey on Golbez's insecurities and eat away at feelings for his family, which in turn eroded his sense of morality. After that, it was simply a matter of giving him a directive to follow. Everything that came after was Golbez's own skills at work, albeit toward an end he would never have sought if not under the thumb of another.

The crappy 3D version of the game has a couple flashbacks in it that give some details on how things went down. Then you've got the After Years, which contains even more information on Golbez.

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From what you say it sounds as if this 'Zemus' was the one manipulating Golbez? I've also seen quite a few references to a 'Zeromus', and comments pertaining to the obvious similarity in name to our new cap-tipping friend.

Certainly seems as if unfamiliarity with FFIV is a bit of a disadvantage in this case; I'll have to engage in some Google-Fu, I think!

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

From what you say it sounds as if this 'Zemus' was the one manipulating Golbez? I've also seen quite a few references to a 'Zeromus', and comments pertaining to the obvious similarity in name to our new cap-tipping friend.

Certainly seems as if unfamiliarity with FFIV is a bit of a disadvantage in this case; I'll have to engage in some Google-Fu, I think!

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That is correct. Though, I would certainly say it was beyond manipulation. There was definitely a degree of actual mind control involved, but it was more in the sense of making Golbez stay in line. Zemus didn't outright puppet him so much as wind him up like a toy soldier and send him out to complete the mission through whatever means he deemed appropriate. This of course being in addition to spending years gaslighting him until he was worn down enough to be controlled in the first place.

Perfect summation of Golbez, Absim! Way better than how I put it.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

That is correct. Though, I would certainly say it was beyond manipulation. There was definitely a degree of actual mind control involved, but it was more in the sense of making Golbez stay in line. Zemus didn't outright puppet him so much as wind him up like a toy soldier and send him out to complete the mission through whatever means he deemed appropriate. This of course being in addition to spending years gaslighting him until he was worn down enough to be controlled in the first place.

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So what your interpreting is that Golbez and Zemus is a discount Arthas with Nerzhul.

Ok good to know

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

So what your interpreting is that Golbez and Zemus is a discount Arthas with Nerzhul.

Ok good to know

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Eh, not so much. Arthas was the one calling the shots inside the Lich King. He consumed Ner'zhul at the end of Arthas: Rise of the Lich King. This consumption was not complete, however; part of Ner'zhul remained, struggling to regain control. Unfortunately, Arthas used Ner'zhul's guilt at playing a major role in the downfall of his own race to send him into a spiral of despair that not only made it impossible for him to ever claw his way back up, it resulted in his remnants' near-total dissolution over time. Only faint echoes and some memories remained by the time of Arthas' defeat.

Then along came Shadowlands to ruin a bunch of crap by introducing the Jailer, who apparently tried (and failed) to control the Lich Kings via the Helm of Domination. Ol' Ner'zhul's soul wound up in the Maw at some point, enslaved again.

With Zemus and Golbez, it's more of just the former spending years to wear the latter down until he could be made to serve, but never quite managing to completely break him.