Main Scenario Restriction Bloodstorm - Very Very Bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Avalon1101

This is rare to see.
In PvE stance and esuna are being used so frequently; and in Pvp...
Well base on what you say I bet you never healed in feast

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What does Feast have to do with low level PvE? I said Cleric Stance is "click and forget" pre-30, which is what the subject is about. I didn't mean you'll never stance dance.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Considering it's better to frequently switch in and out of Cleric Stance, I'd hardly call it a "Click and forget". Having recently came back to level WHM, I also wouldn't say Esuna rarely has any use. Is it vital ? No. But you're still supposed to learn how to rely on it before it becomes necessary. That's the point of a learning curve. It's the same for Medica, as it should teach you to judge how to spend your MP efficiently before forcing you to starve when done wrong.

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At later levels, yes. Pre-30, I barely bother stance dancing because the tank just isn't going to take much damage. Perhaps we heal differently, but I'll generally let the tank's HP fall low before I heal. In that time, most packs will have died and I don't even need to heal them. Now if they start pulling more, you'll have to dance, but newer tanks usually won't. You learn how Esuna works by reading its description. I know a lot of us don't hold much optimism for DF, but I'd like to think they can figure that out on their on. :p

Medica just isn't a thing. I leveled WHM on my alt almost to Praetorium and I honestly can't recall ever using Medica-- certainly not before Stone Vigil. Nonetheless, this isn't difficult to pick up just by reading.

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It's not "for the sake of it" it you have an audience that specifically look for that kind of concept. I've tried several MMOs and none managed to hook me, precisely because they didn't have that feeling a being united in a grand story.

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And that audience isn't going to be effected. I'm similar, actually. I basically quit the MMO genre for years because the stories bored me. FFXIV's made things interesting and I love it for that. But, if someone else only wants to play for raids. I, frankly, couldn't care less. They'll skip the story regardless. Might as well let Square make money off them.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Cleric Stance is click and forget, Protect you should only use once at the very beginning of the dungeon, Esuna rarely ever has any use and I scarcely need to use Cure, let alone Medica. Likewise, Aero is okay, but things usually die way too fast for it to matter.

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You're basically saying don't bother using DoTs, and after a Qarn and Cutter's Cry run tonight with synced players, this is anything but the truth. Expect a min of 30 minutes to get to the final boss in each of these dungeons without any DoTs. Both are quite long, and the mobs don't die as fast as you think they do. You will most likely need two Protect casts if you want it for the final boss fight.

As for Esuna/Leeches most mobs in this game have some sort of detrimental status effect they can inflict on you, and if you're healing through it, you are at the very least using up one extra gcd opposed to just casting your cleanse skill to do so. Keep that in mind.[/quote]

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

You will be using Stone I and Cure almost exclusively throughout Conjurer.

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Of course you will. And isn't that awesome? That skills you learn from day one are still used in endgame?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Lancer is even worse, wherein you literally do nothing but hit Heavy Thrust then spam Impulse Drive until it drops. If you bothered to level Pugilist, you'll have Internal Release however that hardly breaks up the monotony. Thaumaturge mostly boils down to Fire/Blizzard and Transposing between them. Pugilist probably offers the greatest variety because you actually unlock a full combo early, have a couple buffs and need to consider positionals. Otherwise, no, I didn't learn anything playing the classes I couldn't have easily picked up with less than an hour of play. There is a reason the devs have not only acknowledged their dissatisfaction with classes but are basically phasing them out entirely. Come 4.0 (or perhaps sooner), you won't even need to level them for cross skills.

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What is so ironic about this statement right here is how you say you didn't learn anything.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Gating content behind the story isn't some ground breaking accomplishment. It's just forcing people to spam numpad 0/mouse click if they aren't interested in it.

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Actually, it kind of is. The rewards for finishing ARR and HW really aren't anything to scoff at. If the players aren't interested, they are playing the wrong mmo. The MSQ is amazing, and even several of the side quests as well. Not to mention class and job quests. Particularly the level 30 and 50 ones. Some of them have even brought tears to my eyes. Be happy I'm not running the show, because if I was I would give better rewards to vets for running with new players at their average iLv.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Actually, it kind of is.

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Well, it certainly DOES test your patience and pain tolerance...in that, keeping at it can probably indeed be viewed as an accomplishment.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

You're basically saying don't bother using DoTs, and after a Qarn and Cutter's Cry run tonight with synced players, this is anything but the truth. Expect a min of 30 minutes to get to the final boss in each of these dungeons without any DoTs. Both are quite long, and the mobs don't die as fast as you think they do. You will most likely need two Protect casts if you want it for the final boss fight.

As for Esuna/Leeches most mobs in this game have some sort of detrimental status effect they can inflict on you, and if you're healing through it, you are at the very least using up one extra gcd opposed to just casting your cleanse skill to do so. Keep that in mind.

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Sigh. You aren't going to be a Conjurer in Qarn or Cutter's Cry, thus a discussion about pre-30 dungeons wouldn't include either. So no, I'm not saying that.

You aren't running into many detrimental effects before Brayflox. And like I said above, people can read exactly what Esuna does. There isn't anything to learn beyond "use this to cure posion/paralysis/etc."

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Of course you will. And isn't that awesome? That skills you learn from day one are still used in endgame?

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That has absolutely nothing to do with what I quoted or why. The person who started this discussion mentioned how you aren't learning anything while leveling a class because their "rotations" are so minimalistic.

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What is so ironic about this statement right here is how you say you didn't learn anything.

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No, I said the game doesn't teach you anything pre-30, or frankly, at all. Once again, we're talking classes only here.

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Actually, it kind of is. The rewards for finishing ARR and HW really aren't anything to scoff at. If the players aren't interested, they are playing the wrong mmo. The MSQ is amazing, and even several of the side quests as well. Not to mention class and job quests. Particularly the level 30 and 50 ones. Some of them have even brought tears to my eyes. Be happy I'm not running the show, because if I was I would give better rewards to vets for running with new players at their average iLv.

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In your opinion. All of this is subjective. You or I may enjoy the story, but that doesn't mean everyone else will or their opinions of it are somehow wrong. Would you tell someone "you're playing the wrong game" if they just picked up Call of Duty for the campaign? There are plenty of people who like crafting, raiding, socializing or whatever else and don't give one iota about the story.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

At later levels, yes. Pre-30, I barely bother stance dancing because the tank just isn't going to take much damage. Perhaps we heal differently, but I'll generally let the tank's HP fall low before I heal.

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I usually have the tank on focus and turn off Cleric stance around the 50% mark...which can happen fast depending on stuff and size of packs...

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

In that time, most packs will have died and I don't even need to heal them. Now if they start pulling more, you'll have to dance, but newer tanks usually won't.

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You don't run only on newer tanks at low level. And even if you do, pulling only one or two mobs at once is just not using this level range to learn properly.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

You learn how Esuna works by reading its description. I know a lot of us don't hold much optimism for DF, but I'd like to think they can figure that out on their on. :p

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Learning how and when to use a skill by reading the toolkit ? If only that was a real thing... :p

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Medica just isn't a thing. I leveled WHM on my alt almost to Praetorium and I honestly can't recall ever using Medica-- certainly not before Stone Vigil. Nonetheless, this isn't difficult to pick up just by reading.

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Then you could have done better. Again, that's the purpose of a learning curve. If you wait for Medica to be mandatory to accustom yourself to use it, it's a bit late.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

And that audience isn't going to be effected. I'm similar, actually. I basically quit the MMO genre for years because the stories bored me. FFXIV's made things interesting and I love it for that. But, if someone else only wants to play for raids. I, frankly, couldn't care less. They'll skip the story regardless. Might as well let Square make money off them.

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Perhaps, but that's not the kind of game FFXIV is. The audience wants a lore and story focused MMO, so FFXIV a lore and story focused MMO. If it throws that away, it loses part of its identity. What will it lose after that ?

"What?! I have to complete more semesters before I get my masters? No, no, no...I want to just have it and start enjoying a big salary without any effort!"

"Wtf....everyone boots me from every job interview. Life sucks and it's not fair boohooooo"

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Then you could have done better. Again, that's the purpose of a learning curve. If you wait for Medica to be mandatory to accustom yourself to use it, it's a bit late.

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I didn't use it because I never needed it. I couldn't "do better" if no one else is taking damage. That said, I still know how Medica works and when to use it. It just didn't come up. :p

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Perhaps, but that's not the kind of game FFXIV is. The audience wants a lore and story focused MMO, so FFXIV a lore and story focused MMO. If it throws that away, it loses part of its identity. What will it lose after that ?

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And adding a skip option isn't going to take lore or story away. In fact, you could argue gating less behind story or allowing some form of skipping means they can focus more on the story. Why? Because the devs don't have to account for people who want to speed through everything. But for argument's sake, say I brought a friend over to FF and she skipped the MSQ either by spamming numpad 0 or using a skip item, all because her goal was to play with me. How does that affect you or your enjoyment?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I didn't use it because I never needed it. I couldn't "do better" if no one else is taking damage. That said, I still know how Medica works and when to use it. It just didn't come up. :p

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Yes, you could. Even at low levels, some bosses still do AoE better healed my one medica than several Cure. The fact that you know is not proving anything. Maybe you're a quick learner, and could have been thrown in the game with a lvl 50 character right from the start. I personally didn't have any issue with PLD or WAR, despite having them max level before ARR. Yet, SE deemed important to create something like the Novic Hall, which had probably helped lots of new players.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

And adding a skip option isn't going to take lore or story away. In fact, you could argue gating less behind story or allowing some form of skipping means they can focus more on the story. Why? Because the devs don't have to account for people who want to speed through everything. But for argument's sake, say I brought a friend over to FF and she skipped the MSQ either by spamming numpad 0 or using a skip item, all because her goal was to play with me. How does that effect you or your enjoyment?

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I'd enjoy the game less, because it wouldn't stay true to itself. Here's an example. You play WoW as a Human Paladin. You read/played just about everyhting in the Warcraft universe, and then they release Wrath Of The Lich King, with the Nightelf Death Knight...in theory, you should be like "WTF, Nightelves can't be Death Knight, they're protected from the scourge !". After that, you have Cataclysm with the Nightelf Mage..."That's bullshit, Nightelves can't be mages ! The Elves mages are the High elves, thus the Blood Elves !"...in all that, you still play a Human Paladin, so it doesn't change the game for your character. You wouldn't be (haven't been if you played WoW) bothered by that ?

Or else, if they decide "Fuck the lore, let's bring this character back from the dead without any explanation !" wouldn't it bother you ?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Here's an example.

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And here's a few differences:
- The story and lore remains the same, it does not get changed nor does established lore/story get contradicted - it's just skipped. I personally don't think the Harry Potter series loses its identity or doesn't remain true to itself simply because you can read the second or third book before the first.
- You can't tell without questioning the person whether they skipped with an extra option, skipped the cutscenes or watched them all.

So from what i got from people who say no to skip potion seem to think:

New player to FFXIV = Never played MMOs and needs to learn

I mean everyone knows FFXIV is so different from all tab target games right....? >_>