Gear level, the final nail in the games coffin.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

What? You aren't going to do bahamut's coil or any content in 2.1? Selling account or quitting after your relic?

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It's more like once I get my Relic Scholar weapon most of my time will be spent crafting or helping out the other people in my Linkshell and Free Company, whom I rushed past to get to this point. I don't really need to do the Binding Coil of Bahamut or Crystal Tower until my family all decides they want to try it out. I want the Omnilex because it's the weapon that goes with the job-specific gear.

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Originally Posted by Vinta

It's more like once I get my Relic Scholar weapon most of my time will be spent crafting or helping out the other people in my Linkshell and Free Company, whom I rushed past to get to this point. I don't really need to do the Binding Coil of Bahamut or Crystal Tower until my family all decides they want to try it out. I want the Omnilex because it's the weapon that goes with the job-specific gear.

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Yeah, because we all know that an MMO only has a 3 month lifespan.

I am glad there is an item level requirement. So tired of wiping on fights when peoples gear isn't up to par. I get you want to do the content but not having the gear or understanding the fight hurts everyone. Just gear up,read up the fights and we'll go from there.

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Originally Posted by Vinta

The item level for Titan better not be 60. There's no way I'm going out and spending weeks of my life farming 11 pieces of 60+ gear just so I can do ONE fight to get my Relic weapon, and then proceed to never use the level 60+ armor again.

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At less than iLvl 60 gear you go down to stomps easily unless you're being carried hard by the second healer. The AF gear isn't meant to be the end all of gear, it's entry level gear for things like AK and Ifrit HM.

why do a handful of the FF11 players get there panties in a bunch over EVERY single new system.. guess FF11 community is upset cause the were planning to do lvl 50 instances/raids with lvl 45 to 50 gear?? I mtean are you upset because you cant queue for an instance in which you are completely useless without proper equipment. Are you sad cause you cant force other "serious" players to swoop you up in there arms and carry the under geared selfish player to the end so you can try to drops from players who actually worked to earn t

the entire complaint is absolutely ridiculous. If your not geared enough to be effective in the instance, what the hell are you doing queue'n for it. I like the gear score idea, as it will remove idiots that have no chance at succeeding or are going to stuggle pulling there weight. Making room to players that are actually capable of finishing the content.

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Originally Posted by Slambo

You're gunna need those "loots brah" to participate coming with 2.1 so have fun sitting on the sidelines if you aren't willing to work on your lowest gear.

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For every person that makes this statement. There are 10 great players that clear content the aforementioned person has never seen with lesser gear and greater skill. Tell that to all the guilds across every MMO for the past 13 years that have cleared the hardest content at the start of every expansion without farming the new gear.

In my time, I've known far more players with amazing skill that do things that gearscore elitists say they cannot than I have known gearscore elitists that had even a modicum of skill...

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

For every person that makes this statement. There are 10 great players that clear content the aforementioned person has never seen with lesser gear and greater skill. Tell that to all the guilds across every MMO for the past 13 years that have cleared the hardest content at the start of every expansion without farming the new gear.

In my time, I've known far more players with amazing skill that do things that gearscore elitists say they cannot than I have known gearscore elitists that had even a modicum of skill...

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And it still doesn't change that an RPG is a numbers game. There is a factual limit to what skill can overcome. Not to mention most of the people this system will apply to won't ever have that level of skill.

I think the speed in which everyone is leveling & the lack of reliance on gear level from the very start is not helping people get accustomed the consequences of gear level effecting the completion of content. If gear stats will be the gate by which one can gain entry into content, then early on, something should be done to get players accustomed to paying attention to gear level.

The quest where you are required to put on X level gear to to meet the npc's inspection is almost what I mean but it is only one quest that I imagine most people forget immediately.

I also think the fact that gear has so little consequence in early levels also contributes to a model of not needing to rely on your gear to dictate whether or not you can enter. If people get use to paying attention to gear at early levels, there is a better chance that they will gear up at higher levels, not be hit by a giant barrier of unfamiliarity & learning curve when they reach the levels where these things matter.

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

For every person that makes this statement. There are 10 great players that clear content the aforementioned person has never seen with lesser gear and greater skill. Tell that to all the guilds across every MMO for the past 13 years that have cleared the hardest content at the start of every expansion without farming the new gear.

In my time, I've known far more players with amazing skill that do things that gearscore elitists say they cannot than I have known gearscore elitists that had even a modicum of skill...

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Very well said an I can not agree more. It is nice to see a rational am intelligent post on this forum for a change...It's quite sad how blizzard taught some of these players today that shinys are everything, because they are missing out on 99% of the game. level cap is not the start of a game, an nor are shinys the be all an end all.

I guess I'm so new to MMO's I'm not understanding... Just progressing in the game to level 46, the storyline quests alone have given me level 50 gear (evokers horn, etc.. Etc.)... fighting in fates and doing grand company leves (which is how I have killed time waiting to get into dungeons) have given me seals which give higher level gear than that, and doing the dungeons have given me the tomes to get even higher level gear than that... Not sure what the problem is?

I have a better idea than gear score.

What about an option in the duty finder to avoid being paired with players who play with a controller instead of keyboard?
Please SE, give it to us!

Gear does not equal skill. However, even the most skilled player will not be able to beat a mechanic that is clearly a 'gear check'. MMOs are meant to make you grind. They want you to improve your gear so you have to spend a lot of time playing and keep paying for your subscription. Even though this game is definitely more casual friendly, you should NOT forget that the makers of the game need to keep you 'hooked' somehow.

I have seen skilled players with bad gear and bad players with great gear. But, having good gear, for some fights, is unfortunately a prerequisite.

I ran wanderers, ak, and ifrit hard for fun with a group of people geared in lvl 45 gear for spritbonding and we had no problem. It may take a little longer but it comes down to knowing the fight. Also, healers don't need gear as bad as dds and tanks because the difference in healing between af and dark light isn't that much and their abilities can make up the difference. But in the more hardcore fights like the coils it's a must, I don't think it would be a problem up to garuda hard.

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Originally Posted by SetzeR85

I guess I'm so new to MMO's I'm not understanding... Just progressing in the game to level 46, the storyline quests alone have given me level 50 gear (evokers horn, etc.. Etc.)... fighting in fates and doing grand company leves (which is how I have killed time waiting to get into dungeons) have given me seals which give higher level gear than that, and doing the dungeons have given me the tomes to get even higher level gear than that... Not sure what the problem is?

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The problem, my friend, is that most of the MMO-mentality today includes playing for two weeks and being in full engame gear so you can go around showing off your cool armour to everyone. When this isn't possible, it will be considered a grind.
It would be fun to see these people back in the old MMO days where stuff was actually hard to obtain.

Call me old, but isn't the whole point of a game to play it? I mean, I don't think it would be any fun to try to do anything endgame without learning everything I have to this point and be better at playing? I mean, hell, Im still getting yelled at in some of the dungeons and I thought my job was to just attack whatever the tank is attacking?

Just because you have lvl 70 gear doesn't mean it's the best though, compare gear made by a lvl 50 weaver. Technically it's lvl 70 gear and highest ranked GC gear is about 70, but it sucks compared to the dark light. I think when they put in the gear score a lot of people are going to be shocked to find out that the devs think certain places can be beat with lower lvl gear than they thought, but then the elitists will find another reason to bar people and say that they aren't skilled enough or something to put the blame on someone else.

I honestly can't see much of a problem with this. For the vast majority of players that follow the story and sidequest to endgame, they will have the armor they need for most dungeons through quest rewards alone. Accessories would be the only thing that people might have to put some effort into upgrading.

I imagine that the only time anyone would really notice the gear check is for ilvl 55+ dungeons (endgame). While I understand people's complaints of "good gear doesn't make a good player", being the most skilled player that gets one-shotted by attacks that shouldn't be a 1HKO because of under-leveled gear still makes you a detriment to the group.

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Originally Posted by Mkilbride

Welp. Now, we'll see shouts "LF X class, with gear level x"


FFXI was my favorite MMORPG, and yes, I know this isn't XI, and everyone here hates XI, but I'd liked how in XI, in those end-game raids and the like, people didn't complain about your gear. They just had fun doign it, win or lose. I'd like to at least get XI's awesome community back.

Changes like this prevent a good community from forming.

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IDK what you're talking about FFXI now is all about gear. You aint killin Dakuwaqa with garbage salvage gear. lol

The main thing I get annoyed at a lot is the fact that I'll run a dungeon several times for gear and still not get anything for my trouble, (I play conjurer 24 and no where near end game yet) and when I finally see some Disciple of magic oriented gear drop only to see the Thaum get it or the arcanist get it. I don't mind the ilvl, but I also don't want to spend my entire FFXIV career chasing one piece of armor just to get into the next dungeon and spend my entire career. It gets more than rediculous if you run a dungeon 50 times and still not get the item you're looking for.

In reply to the "Grind", I am truly well and done with grinding. I am the story based player. I am also whether I want to be or not a casual player due to relatively limited playtime. I get bored by grinds, I've done too many of them.

I also completely detest elitists.

Keep me entertained for storyline and I'll keep playing. throw grinds at me all the time and I'll end up quitting.

Well the point of gear level locks is that you don't have to should for a min gear level to run an instance, those without the gear wont be able to enter.

And you are very naïve to think that a lack of gear score would mean that people wouldn't just examine people and then leave the instance if you were under geared....which imo is an even bigger pain in the ass...since you join a group and you are geared to do it but some guy wants to skip content is there, and now the group falls apart, wasting your time.

People do gear checks for a reason, the game requires you to have a certain level of gear to complete a dungeon. Its not that hard to understand.

You are not suppose to be able to clear endgame in a week, you are suppose to have to work on getting gear in order to progress..

If you don't want gear scores or people to care go play GW2 or any other game where endgame pvp is non existent and dull.

Gear levels is nothing but a substitute for regular levels! I don't get why people want to rush to max level so they can start grinding gear levels instead. What's the harm of letting people keep leveling then and balance the gear around that?
Heck then you could even have unique and interesting gear that give "mp regen" or chance to give hp on hit etc. That can be good for its stats rather than its "level".

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Originally Posted by TasOgie

Very well said an I can not agree more. It is nice to see a rational am intelligent post on this forum for a change...It's quite sad how blizzard taught some of these players today that shinys are everything, because they are missing out on 99% of the game. level cap is not the start of a game, an nor are shinys the be all an end all.

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In a theme park mmo shinnies ARE everything. They dictate every single piece of relevant information about your character. that naked warrior will not be able to out tank that fully geared warrior. sorry, skill is only relevant when you have the required gear for the content you are attempting. When encounters are designed to one shot you unless you have a minimum of so much defense and hit points no matter how skilled you are you will die unless you have that gear.

All of you saying stuff like this, go and try to clear the binding coil in only your lvl 45 and 50 AF pieces, a white trash weapon instead of a relic, and everyone in the raid equipped so, or get all of these super awesome players you know to do it and clear it. $1,000 says its impossible no matter how skilled you are unless you are being carried. if gear was not important we would just get stuff that altered appearance instead of having stats on it and defense or damage.

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Originally Posted by nimrod

U see, 1 guy with low-end gear can ruin 7 other ppl in an dungeon. It takes only 1 guy. Now think about 2-3 low-end geared ppl on Titan. ITS IMPOSSIBLE. U wont have enough dmg even with LB3 on the heart etc.

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But according to their logic, when the number of low end gear people increases to like er....8 (laugh), it will be a good and happy community and everythings gonna be fine.

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Originally Posted by makii

The problem, my friend, is that most of the MMO-mentality today includes playing for two weeks and being in full engame gear so you can go around showing off your cool armour to everyone. When this isn't possible, it will be considered a grind.
It would be fun to see these people back in the old MMO days where stuff was actually hard to obtain.

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or see them in something like ultima online where you ground out kills for months to get that bad ass kriss or the materials to make it, only to die 5 minutes later and have your corpse looted and lose your awesome during your corpse run.

when ppl are already asking for DL gear for castrum runs ....or asking for relic for titan (lol yeah because ppl interested in doing titan have relic )

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Originally Posted by celticprince

Dragon Soul was not nerfed until right before Mists of Pandaria launched.

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Uh no, but as I remembered, Dragon Soul was nerfed 5% per 5% every two weeks in a totally of months. "Right before" would mean within 1 week according to my understanding.

And that was after too many people complained about Blizzard nerfing end game content too EARLY and giving in to noobs in WotLK and thus left the game.

First half of the bosses in ICC was released week by week, in the second week we killed Professor Putricide on the first day, on the first ATTEMPT. Everyone prepared so well they can write a strat and lead a raid on their own. (Well actually we were forced by the guild leader to write "homework" on the guild forum, it does not feel "fun", (as in the "fun" that some anti-elitists claim), but we just wanted to get stuff done.

Two weeks later, a freakin 5% nerf hit ICC. That was 1 month after the patch was released.

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

For every person that makes this statement. There are 10 great players that clear content the aforementioned person has never seen with lesser gear and greater skill. Tell that to all the guilds across every MMO for the past 13 years that have cleared the hardest content at the start of every expansion without farming the new gear.

In my time, I've known far more players with amazing skill that do things that gearscore elitists say they cannot than I have known gearscore elitists that had even a modicum of skill...

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Those 10 wouldn't have even known the existance of a gearscore system because it's those 10 all the time. Now what happens when it's only those 9 and they had to pug a new guy. I'd say they'd probably have to train him for 13 years :D, so make him skillfully on par with the whole team.

Currently, I don't think skill weighs as heavily as in for example WoW. The rotation is so simple that the only limiting factor, other than gear, is your latency. It not like you can gear and gem for full crit as a fire mage and win dps meters vs guys 13 ilvls above you when you get lucky crits the whole fight, or, you can keep 3 dots on 5 targets perfectly with no dot downtime the whole fight as a shadow priest.

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Originally Posted by TasOgie

Very well said an I can not agree more. It is nice to see a rational am intelligent post on this forum for a change...It's quite sad how blizzard taught some of these players today that shinys are everything, because they are missing out on 99% of the game. level cap is not the start of a game, an nor are shinys the be all an end all.

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Wrong, when I was playing WoW 3 years ago, there's always an achievement (plus title) that can only obtained when the whole group finishes the whole raid while all wearing undergeared stuff, i.e. maximum ilvl cap of stuff you can wear inside. And that's the real SHINY achievement and title to be displayed next to your name. It's like taunting everyone you see by saying you can finish this raid with gear from this patch, I finished it with gear from the last patch, haha, kneel, kneel!

I'm not sure about what's in WoW now, I haven't played for like 1.5 expansions.

my gear was to blame for the tank tanking the boss in the wrong place and killing everyone
another run my gear was to blame for the healer camping behind the boss and suiciding
both runs my gear was blamed for the failures.
yes true story

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Originally Posted by Photon_Asmodius

Just because you have lvl 70 gear doesn't mean it's the best though, compare gear made by a lvl 50 weaver. Technically it's lvl 70 gear and highest ranked GC gear is about 70, but it sucks compared to the dark light. I think when they put in the gear score a lot of people are going to be shocked to find out that the devs think certain places can be beat with lower lvl gear than they thought, but then the elitists will find another reason to bar people and say that they aren't skilled enough or something to put the blame on someone else.

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When i see a fellow BLM in AK with ifrit weapon (that i defeated 25 times and never dropped it) that use fire 3 non stop then transpose blizzard until he can cast transpose again and back to fire 3 spam(and we whipe on first boss, first time for tank), i don't feel i'm elitarist if i quit and call him not skilled enough (after explaining the right rotation and he won't listen of corse)
Some ppl DO miss the skill

When you get to a boss like Titan HM you need to have enough DPS to kill the heart before he kills you(just like baby mode).
People with a trash weapon, full AF and trash rings will not be able to output the damage required to do this no matter how skilled there is a limit to what numbers you can push out.

Titan has some unavoidable AoE damage that you simply have to heal through If you get a scrub in full AF with a white weapon and level 30 rings/neck etc they will be sitting on 2500 odd HP when the rest of the group in near/full Darklight has 3500 odd no matter how skilled you are if you do not have enough base health to survive during tumult then you are a cancer on your group. You will die every single time and there is nothing you "skill" can do it is a simple case of numbers. A tank in full AF with a white weapon and crap low level rings will get gibbed by table flip, under geared healers won't be able to keep up with Tumult or healing up after the transition my own heals hit for a few hundred more and i have about 1000 more MP now in Darklight then i had in AF+49 rings.

A skilled player will be the one in a full set of gear for the encounter because a skilled player is not selfish/lazy/stupid enough to wander into a hard mode fight in leveling gear(which is what AF gear is) a skilled player will not get carried through garuda in trash gear because a skilled player understands the game well enough to know he has to gear up in earlier dungeons first.matter how skilled there is a limit to what numbers you can push out.

There is nothing elitist about wanting people to be at the minimum level of gear required by the encounter the fight is impossible if half the groups in full AF with trash weapons.

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Originally Posted by LetBloodline

When i see a fellow BLM in AK with ifrit weapon (that i defeated 25 times and never dropped it) that use fire 3 non stop then transpose blizzard until he can cast transpose again and back to fire 3 spam(and we whipe on first boss, first time for tank), i don't feel i'm elitarist if i quit and call him not skilled enough (after explaining the right rotation and he won't listen of corse)
Some ppl DO miss the skill

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What about those that does that same as above but sometimes forget to even transpose back to fire 3 :s

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Originally Posted by Tigerwong

What about those that does that same as above but sometimes forget to even transpose back to fire 3 :s

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You don't need transpose to go from umbral 3 to astral 3. In fact you want to NOT use it. Fire 3 goes in One cast to astral 3, even with umbral on. Plus with umbral 3 cast time of fire spell is halfed. So right rotation is start with thunder(not yet 100% sure wich is better) go fire 3 fire 1 (fire 3 every time fire starter proc) until 500 mp more or less blizzard 3 rinse and repeat. Basic obviusly but this much is a given. Drag in AK a BLM that do fire 3 fire 3 fire 3 transpose blizzard blizzard blizzard blizzard transpose is something i don't want do
I explained the rotation but i'm not there to babysit. I explain once, twice then leave
I am elitarist for that?

Quote Originally Posted by Unaki View Post
You know people can see what kind of gear you have before inviting you right? All gearscore does is add one additional number to your gear that consolidates everything you have equipped. People have been excluding people for gear for freaking decades dude.

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Originally Posted by EmeraldSerenade

No duh. This just makes it worse.

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Yes even more worsen as discrimination to other players.

heh, it's already started. Seen a bunch of shouts yesterday looking for specific lvl classes geared in specific gear, and some with a smug rude remark after it basically saying don't bother if you don't have this but not in a nice way.

Im a bit iffy on this myself. I don't really think its fair to force players to have certain gear for certain content. If someone wants to attempt to beat hard mode events naked, let them! Just allow groups the ability to set what gear level they'll accept for fights. The elitists can be picky, and the more open minded can select whomever they want! Win-Win I'd say. Might be difficult to find a group though >.>

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Originally Posted by Anakhu

heh, it's already started. Seen a bunch of shouts yesterday looking for specific lvl classes geared in specific gear, and some with a smug rude remark after it basically saying don't bother if you don't have this but not in a nice way.

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i'm going to farm the best equip only to wipe such elitist f*ckers in the dungeon.

discrimination and gearscore has no place in this game.
because it says nothing about how a player will actually perform in party.

i mean some linkshells offer Relic service already.
so how useless would that be.

OP I feel with you. These are exactly my thougths...
I like this game but if community things don't get better I'll lose all my interest.

I miss times where people liked to do the things. People helped each other and just had fun. It was so much the Final Fantasy community. And somehow all these things are gone.

This was my biggest fear for 2.0 and it is even worse than I thought.

I don't know what's the problem with people oO Do YOU want to join a group when you're undegeared? Its like a level 50 wouldn't want to party with level 40. Stop crying because your gear isn't good enough for those instances.
Jeez, i just liked the post so i could unlike it

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Originally Posted by Camate

Just to reiterate, this adjustment will be made in patch 2.1, and your average item level will be displayed in your character window. To coincide with this, we will also be adding a display for the required item level in the Duty Finder.

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Honestly, this needs to happen before 2.1. I can't tell you the number of times I've run garuda/titan in DF only for tanks to show up in full AF and a lv 50 weapon. Same for dps. It's really ruining the game as not only are people not progressing because of gear checks not being met but you're now waiting 20-30 minutes for a DF pop only to disband right as you get in because someone is undergeared and someone else rage quits.