Alpha First Look: Video 5 - Quests and Combat

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Originally Posted by Davy

You sir can shut it! :)

Yours Truly,
Davy "Sing Bitch" Jones

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LOLOL

Don't make us have you log into TS with another embarrassing ID name Davy :P

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Originally Posted by Kiote

In contrast, I met all of my In-game friends and got invited to all of my Linkshells from people acknowledging how good I was in a PUG.

Personally, I don't trust someone I've never partied with. I would not invite them to my Endgame Linkshell. I certainly would not put them in a situation where they could Ninja my Linkshells drops.

Only thing I can think of that is worse than inviting people you've never played with, is inviting people you've never played with after making them fill out an application...

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I had this discussion with someone I work with who plays MMO's too. He likes to have statics and doesn't really converse with anyone he doesnt consider good at the game, but somehow calls the people he statics with 'Friends'. Thats not being a real friend, and if the people who you place the term friend on think the same way, they dont think of you as a real friend. They are simply party members. Conversing and partying only with skilled people means you simply want some tools to help your character data progress. You are all just useing each other for your own personal gains, thats not something friends do to each other...

I tell him all the time "They aren't your friends, they are just your business partners", and the stories of needless dungeon party drama over this drop or priortizing who gets their weapon crafted first proves my points with him.

The only real friends are the people who talk with you about things other than game related discussion, and will talk with you regardless of your skill.

personally i love player interactions in my mmo's ...the more forced party play the better. its not about small groups, intimate 2player thing though. i don't really like small parties where it's me and another running around. i'm more like the "it's a party!!" college, full house of peoples you don't know kinda thing. i like it large and tons of people together. anything less then 6party kinda feels dull to me doing anything other then farming and the jollies i get curing someone when they are fighting and have a nice chunk of hp down. i consider them friends even if i don't know there real names, and i don't need to know squat about them. it's as intimate as i want it in a mmo. i want the grouping and fun and then the one day cya later, hopefully 5years later when the game gets stale. i don't want to meet you or talk to you on phone or give you my number or anything like that. typing and having fun is as far as it goes and i luvs it. i frigin hate solo play, gw2 was an all time record in how fast i quit an mmo. 2 weeks. fuk that game and fuk all mmo's trying to copy it.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

gw2 was an all time record in how fast i quit an mmo. 2 weeks. fuk that game and fuk all mmo's trying to copy it.

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Shoulda made some friends. We did everything in a party.

But seriously though, your argument is kind of an insult to people who share the same opinion as you. I mean..think about..

You are in love with party play, I respect that. But it sounds to me that you will only play in a party if the game forces you to. Do you just not have the incentive to play in a party on your own? Or do you only play in a party when you have to?

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Originally Posted by Denmo

Jin, I love ya bro. You're a fun guy to play with and chat with. I'm just saying this because I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

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It's cool, I know everyone is different. It's just that the two MMOs that I have been very open with knowing alot of people was this and EQOA for the ps2. Because I exp grind partied alot.

In FFXI and WoW I wasn't as social. FFXI since people took that crap as seriously as a job, which brings me to the point that people may not be too social during an event. I ended up soloing to 75 as Paladin and didn't have any social linkshells. WoW, I joined and did quest after quest alone because the only friend I had in the game said that's how people level and that party grinding sucks, so I soloed.

Nice video!
Can't wait till I can play it :)

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Originally Posted by Hestern_Nestern

Helping this precarious conversation along to the Tangent Lands...

I have made friends in monster-slaying grinding parties. I have made friends in quest-slaying parties. But the only reason I ever did was because I bothered to do so. I engaged the other players in dialogue and became friends with them -- often times I wasn't talking to them about what we were currently doing - but whatever my silly brain could think of to say.

And I've made even more friends in towns or walking along in some zone. I just see people passing by or doing something and I wave - I start emoting, sometimes roleplaying - I compliment people's appearances or I follow people around because I want to figure out what nefarious deeds they are up to (they are usually doing something innocent like buying or crafting stuff and wondering why this little guy is following them around). I make a lot of friends by being helplessly lost despite a map (navigational issues, me).

But the point is...I make friends because I make friends. Sure, certain systems might facilitate friendships more, but inevitably it all comes down to me. Do I speak? Am I friendly wherever I go? Do I explore the world and the people in it? We must use whatever system we are given to our advantage to make friends to grind or quest with. We can't expect some magical string of code that will do it for us.

Yeah.

/speech

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So true. I couldn't have said it better myself

Also in a silent party you can feel more alone, then when you solo.

In Ultima Online I played 90% of the time solo, but I have met with so many people on my way. Somehow I talk with more people when I am just walking around alone. Now that I think about it, in FFXI I also have met most of my friends when I was playing solo.

Playing with other people doesn't have to mean you need to be in a party together.
However it mostly does end up in a party together :)

I really like it more that way then shouting for a party.

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Originally Posted by Psykotsu

Shoulda made some friends. We did everything in a party.

But seriously though, your argument is kind of an insult to people who share the same opinion as you. I mean..think about..

You are in love with party play, I respect that. But it sounds to me that you will only play in a party if the game forces you to. Do you just not have the incentive to play in a party on your own? Or do you only play in a party when you have to?

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that is funny cause i went threw many guilds and every one of them were dead silent no matter how much you talk. most the time they don't even reply back even when you talk let alone keep convo's going. i assume you were on vent with people where lets face it is the only place people gather and talk in for these types of mmo's.

in ffxi on the other hand i was in multiple endgame linkshells that were full, many socials and a handfull of static shells for small game endgame like salvage. along with that everyday i partied with new players and it wasn't 5mins so even if it was quite most the time you still had some very enjoyable jokes and covo's here and there. and made good friends when you realize that 2-3 people are still the original players from when you first started the party 6-10hrs ago lol.

as for forced play yes most likely it has to be, i'm not gonna do it if it's easier and same exp solo'ing. i'm not gonna spend an hour putting a party together to get the same exp. one it would be hard to get a group 2. then i just waisted my time while others speed threw solo. don't get me wrong in ffxi i played tag and hid and seek in jueno with my one linkshell lmao. was boring and i quit very soon after but i just can't get into stuff like that. doing a suicide with poison pots in jueno was entertaining but it wasn't like an everyday part of the game. i like progression and party, it's a good mix :)

on a last note, by the end of ffxi if you did every type of content you probably could play 16hours a day and always have something to do and all of it was with groups, with the same players for most and lots of stuff to do with shouts and small man stuff with new people. so yeah forced grouping is where it's at on the fun factor for me.

I just remember when I was monster grinding (the fatigue system was still in place) I did get to meet some nice people. But they all ended up quitting the game later. In the end all I did was stay up late grinding and losing sleep for levels. Later on, it was for no reason since you could hit 50 in a day grinding as long as I did.

It's like what someone said before about regional servers breaking "friendships": Friends are temporary, lag is forever. I'll apply this to the "long slow boring grind" leveling system.

I want a fun quests system to play with in ARR, I want to level up as I'm having fun. If I make some "friends" a long the way, if I don't make any at all, it doesn't matter because it'll be good times. And if those friends all decide to break up or go some place else, I'll still play and people will still play and I'll just find some new ones.

Why is it hand holding if the npc tells you were to go and what to do. People can't expect you to do favors for them if you don't know what your doing.

Some guys son has been kidnap

Why is it hand holding if the npc tells you were to go and what to do. People can't expect you to do favors for them if you don't know what your doing.

If some guys son was kidnapped why would he give s

As someone already said before, I don't have to be a designer to critique game design. If it bothers a lot of people, you can be sure there's something to it that isn't right TO US. Now this someone has also been nice to share her thoughts on how it could be improved, plus The Secret World system as an example, which had been given before but was ignored. I think I did say most games do NOT have a good quest system, which is entirely the point. And you missed it.

There was a reply which said these quests, as described by her, were the main scenario quests. I have to disagree completely. 1.0 side quests were similar to that, but not the main scenario ones. And if levequests are already a go there, kill this, return, get reward system, why the hell do we need ANOTHER? We don't. Sidequests, like any other RPG you've played in the past are not EXP throw-away quests. MMOs introduced this as a means to fill the game with content. Mindless content. I'm not requiring 11 hours to complete a simple quest, Psykotsu, but again, the difficulty to argue with moderation in mind. It's either black or white. I also am of the opinion that those who have very little time to play should stay the hell away from MMORPGs. So implementing content for those people will never change the fact that they will not enjoy the game. Who would, doing one content over and over again for years, without ever being able to enjoy the game in it's entirety?

Now, why would you ever want to activate a quest to go kill a mob? If you want mindless work, go do the mindless work without a silly excuse that a NPC told you to do it, if you won't even bother to listen to its request.

Now I'm sorry, Hestern_Nestern, but most of what I've gotten on these forums so far was conformism, hate towards criticism and infantile responses trying to ridicule the critics, lack of good arguments to do so, mostly repeating what's been debunked over and over again, such as "This is only Alpha". I know my anger clouds some of my points to those who will take offense, but unfortunately I cannot help it. I thank you for your thoughtful reply, however.

I doubt that questing in general will be different. If they showed us the lower lv 10, 20 levequests from 1.0, we could have assumed correctly that that was going to be repeated throughout the game until lvs 40-50, as it was. It didn't change much. And that's the point of it, I think. To make it a standard, easy to get/complete quest, for level progression. The thing that bothers most people is that level progression is important, and should be made the most fun and interesting as possible. Yet, some people erroneously assume actually playing as a lv 50 is the most fun they'll have, and that they should be made to get there as fast as possible.

Battle is a main concern in a RPG game. I don't think 1% of you here denies it, or dislikes it even. We play RGPs because we enjoy fighting monsters as something other than real people. Every RPG in the past lvled you through battle, and if you didn't enjoy it, then it's hard to believe you're here playing XIV. Some may like battle more than others, who also enjoy a good story, mini games, humor, cutscenes. But you have to enjoy battle to some degree. You also have to enjoy a challenge. Until now, games were meant to challenge us, some more, some less. But challenge already means getting you our of your comfort zone. Questing like that doesn't. It doesn't require you to play your role well in a battle, and it doesn't require you to interact with other players in a battle (note how I said _require_). Requiring it is important to make something engaging. If battles are important, questing is the main mode of lv progression, and questing isn't engaging, the game is pretty much screwed.

Battles in XI were the best a MMO has ever had. You can all disagree or argue with me, but no other game I know ever challenged you in such a way. You had to know your job to really succeed, you had to know everyone else's jobs, be aware of a lot of stuff. It was tense, engaging and rewarding when done right. It was also time consuming. I've reached high lv characters in most other games I played, and I never knew their role to the extent I knew mine in XI (because I didn't need to). Nor have I ever encountered difficulty when lvling in any of those games to the point I had to stop everything else and really focus. Arguing that XI's battle is not harder than others is silly. I don't think it can be denied.

But what does that difficulty accomplish? It bonds you to the players you're partying with. As someone else has mentioned here, XI parties were incredibly social. The game's social aspect was deep because of it. There was much frustration in the dunes, qufim, citadel. It was also memorable when you succeeded. I'm sure those who've played through that have very vivid, fond memories of great parties, more than they have of any other game. Now, how many memories can you really get out of lvling from 1 to 50 through a questing system such as this? Remember, this is not something you can just ignore, it's the main way of lv progression.

Did you not enjoy fighting in past games? Is fighting not a main aspect of a MMORPG? Then how can you prefer quest grinding, where you put little effort into your job and battles are usually fast and easy, over party based monster grinding, where you will put all of your skills to use, feel useful, have your new equipment put to the test, tighten bonds with party mates? This isn't supposed to be quest grinding over RO style of monster grinding, even though I personally would prefer that even over quest grinding, mainly because it was very challenging if you wanted a good exp rate. I think my main point and concern is quest grinding is rarely ever challenging. And if this is the main way through which we will evolve, then it can't be dismissed with arguments such as "Not every content has to be challenging". SURE! Make sidequests relaxing, interesting, about exploration, with minigames, or easy battles with a nice story (just the way it was in 1.0). Because those we CAN avoid and won't be doing them much if we don't want to. Make levequests easy and fast to get through, just the way it was in 1.0. But not the main tool of lvling up.

Do you honestly enjoy the quests that were shown in the video? I'd love to hear each and everyone of you defending this system to tell me you actually enjoy those specific quests. If you don't, then you must be expecting something different later, and I don't think it will happen for those quests.

Now I agree parties in XIV were boring, not social, and way too fast and easy to develop any skills with your job. People ended up honing or even learning their skills with their job in Dzamael or Ifrit, which is bad. Battles should be way more engaging than what the end of 1.0 proved to be. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening either.

I'll stress this once so that it can be clear. I don't want another XI. My first disappointment with XIV was the fact they were mimicking the races of XI (similarities ended there, though). But I'm not expecting an XI-2.

Making quests harder and taking away the hand holding, or at least introducing something to the quests which can only be perceived through the quest text would actually encourage players to read it. You can never force anyone to read the quest text, unless you make it so the quest text is the only clue giver, and you take out map indications. Now, since most people will obviously be against this, because it's not "standardized" and up to the current mmo market? or whatever excuse they'll give, at least they could implement something in the text that makes a difference to those who read it to complete it (lore is not a benefit when quests are as bland and uninteresting as those). There's a difference in posture when you care more about those who don't read instead of caring about those who do read. If you make it so reading is required, those who don't simply open up a wiki and complete the quest. But THEY have to do the extra effort, because they're the lazy uninterested people. Destroying difficult quests altogether so that the lazy people can complete it in game is a slap to the faces of those who enjoy an engaging story in a simple quest. They're not losing anything opening up a wiki, but we are with all the hand holding. You're just making it easier for the lazy.

A direct response to someone who clearly missed the point.

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Oh look! One of THOSE responses. Let me spell it out for you bro. Not doing this (standardizing the game to the current market) and releasing 1.0 in such a pathetic state, was what made Xiv 1.0 a fail pretty much everywhere.

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A game released in such a state doesn't need ANYTHING else to fail. In fact, you'll overlook everything when you can't get a single item fast from the market, your map doesn't work, your UI takes hours to load, and you crash every 30 minutes. Standardizing it was never mentioned as a major flaw in any review.

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Originally Posted by Reika

I had this discussion with someone I work with who plays MMO's too. He likes to have statics and doesn't really converse with anyone he doesnt consider good at the game, but somehow calls the people he statics with 'Friends'. Thats not being a real friend, and if the people who you place the term friend on think the same way, they dont think of you as a real friend. They are simply party members. Conversing and partying only with skilled people means you simply want some tools to help your character data progress. You are all just useing each other for your own personal gains, thats not something friends do to each other...

I tell him all the time "They aren't your friends, they are just your business partners", and the stories of needless dungeon party drama over this drop or priortizing who gets their weapon crafted first proves my points with him.

The only real friends are the people who talk with you about things other than game related discussion, and will talk with you regardless of your skill.

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I see your point and acknowledge that I failed to separate two different things.

While I was pointing out that I personally was invited to groups because of a recognition of skill, I failed to mention that Skill is not a requirement for me to invite people to my groups.

I like to make a lot of friends in these games, but I don't just invite every random person to my Linkshell. If during some party event I get a long with someone, and they demonstrate they're not an obnoxious jerk, I will gladly invite them to my Linkshell, regardless of skill, playtime or level. If they join, then we get to become real friends. If they do not, maybe I'll see them again sometime.

I believe in helping others get better and I will never exclude someone because they aren't good enough yet. People don't get better until they get to try. I'm willing to fail at a Raid or Boss fight a hundred times if it means everyone gets to participate.

Okay.. I'm back to see whats new, and now people are writing blog post, and slandering people game styles.

About the whole quest debate, the fact of the matter is Yoshi-P wants to draw in people that never played MMORPGs before. That is including the diehard Final Fantasy fans that is not used to playing MMORPGs. That is right folks, the fans of the Final Fantasy franchise. We on the forums are just 3% of the entire FFXIV community, and the numbers for the entire Final Fantasy fanbase is much more greater than us combined. This game is going on the PS3 console, so things have to be accessible, and not frustrating or else points is going to be taken off.

With that said, games these days can get bad reviews for boring repetitiveness. That can be avoided if the content is rewarding, and gives you a sense of progress for both casuals and hardcore. With that the fun factor will be there, and that will give the game positive marks on content.

Not sure what to tell everyone, but I hope the developers keep up the good work. I understand the demo is a short 5min Lv15ish quest. It is just what I expect from those levels.

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Originally Posted by Meta

Please explain, oh glorious MMO designer, how sidequests should be implemented. Are we to expect Yoshi-P and all of Square Enix to churn out hundreds of hour-long quests with fully-voiced cutscenes? Should every single quest be as cryptic as a Myst game and feature unclear objectives so that we're constantly ALT-TABing between the game and http://www.eorzeapedia.com/ to see where to go next?

What's wrong with having a healthy supply of mini-quests that have meaningful EXP and Gil rewards? How else are you supplement the game's primary content (Raids, story missions, PVP, FATEs, Hamlet Defense, etc) to ensure that players will gradually develop their characters, especially with a Leve allowance reset? What's wrong with simple conveniences like map markers? And what makes you think that every quest is as simple as the ones featured in the video? I bet some of our lucky Alpha players could tell you that some quests actually more meaty and varied than you think...

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Just remember what was achieved by chastising the critics during the ß for version 1. We have a right to demand a challenging, engaging game for all the energy we have spent.

Let's, of course, remember not to be destructive in our criticism. But let's not be destructive of those who criticize either; this, even if they show more frustration than we like to see, for frustration is difficult to contain, after this long wait. This is my firm belief: If we do not heed the critics because they strike us as strident, we'll be throwing out the proverbial baby with the bath water.

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Originally Posted by Nox

what they are doing here is *gasp* making the game up to standards. congratulations on missing the point.

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Are you sure you didn't mean "bringing the game down to standards"?

When the improved version is less imaginative, less engaging than we rightfully expect, when in fact it seems like involution, like we went backwards, then we should speak up!

It might very well be too late, but who knows...? maybe not. I, and I'm sure I'm far from alone here, want to avoid the feeling of having waited for so long to play a game I already played and didn't really like!

Lol, i found a great pic for this thread from the FFXIV meme thread.

http://i48.tinypic.com/3128snq.jpg

As previously mentioned by others, I don't like that the "moist depression" is named and the tons of indicators for where we're supposed to go in each quest is a bit too much hand-holding but I still like the style of the quests itself. For starting quests, I don't mind the simplicity of it. I'd like to see how they make quests more fun and engaging in the future (I.E. Less cookie cutter.) Further, having quests that require you to actually pay attention to who you're talking to and what they're saying so you know where to go/what to do would be preferable to "skip skip skip skip -> follow map indicator"

http://gamerlolz.com/sites/default/f...1318519487.jpg

something i cant wrap my mind around, is why peole start to hate a game that is still in development and testingphase. Its a Alpha quest for crying out loud, even i can see the tester/player is way to overpowered on level then this quest is written for. be glad someone takes the effort to show how things are looking, and makes a effort to bring it to the outside world to the fans. If yer not a fan, just stfu, if you are a fan, give the guys who are doing a herculesian task of chancing a existing game into something else a break

i for one am excited about the prgress, yes i was dissapointed the timeline wasnt met, but i read the explanation and i can only have respect for Yoshi-P and his team when they say we will not launch a game until it sattisfy our standerd, that our fans expect from us.
so, give them a break, if ya have something constuctive to add what they can impliment in the development speak yer mind, but dont come crying later when the timeline of april isnt met as well cause they listen to the forums

in the end, haters will hate
we dont need haters, we need people who are looking forward to the miracle SE is attempting, make a game that disspointed, into something that the FANS love

p.s dont come crying on my grammatic or spelling, get a life :p

HI BEL! <3

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Originally Posted by Darshu

Battle is a main concern in a RPG game. I don't think 1% of you here denies it, or dislikes it even. We play RGPs because we enjoy fighting monsters as something other than real people. Every RPG in the past lvled you through battle, and if you didn't enjoy it, then it's hard to believe you're here playing XIV. Some may like battle more than others, who also enjoy a good story, mini games, humor, cutscenes. But you have to enjoy battle to some degree. You also have to enjoy a challenge. Until now, games were meant to challenge us, some more, some less. But challenge already means getting you our of your comfort zone. Questing like that doesn't. It doesn't require you to play your role well in a battle, and it doesn't require you to interact with other players in a battle (note how I said _require_). Requiring it is important to make something engaging. If battles are important, questing is the main mode of lv progression, and questing isn't engaging, the game is pretty much screwed.

Battles in XI were the best a MMO has ever had. You can all disagree or argue with me, but no other game I know ever challenged you in such a way. You had to know your job to really succeed, you had to know everyone else's jobs, be aware of a lot of stuff. It was tense, engaging and rewarding when done right. It was also time consuming. I've reached high lv characters in most other games I played, and I never knew their role to the extent I knew mine in XI (because I didn't need to). Nor have I ever encountered difficulty when lvling in any of those games to the point I had to stop everything else and really focus. Arguing that XI's battle is not harder than others is silly. I don't think it can be denied.

But what does that difficulty accomplish? It bonds you to the players you're partying with. As someone else has mentioned here, XI parties were incredibly social. The game's social aspect was deep because of it. There was much frustration in the dunes, qufim, citadel. It was also memorable when you succeeded. I'm sure those who've played through that have very vivid, fond memories of great parties, more than they have of any other game. Now, how many memories can you really get out of lvling from 1 to 50 through a questing system such as this? Remember, this is not something you can just ignore, it's the main way of lv progression.

Did you not enjoy fighting in past games? Is fighting not a main aspect of a MMORPG? Then how can you prefer quest grinding, where you put little effort into your job and battles are usually fast and easy, over party based monster grinding, where you will put all of your skills to use, feel useful, have your new equipment put to the test, tighten bonds with party mates? This isn't supposed to be quest grinding over RO style of monster grinding, even though I personally would prefer that even over quest grinding, mainly because it was very challenging if you wanted a good exp rate. I think my main point and concern is quest grinding is rarely ever challenging. And if this is the main way through which we will evolve, then it can't be dismissed with arguments such as "Not every content has to be challenging". SURE! Make sidequests relaxing, interesting, about exploration, with minigames, or easy battles with a nice story (just the way it was in 1.0). Because those we CAN avoid and won't be doing them much if we don't want to. Make levequests easy and fast to get through, just the way it was in 1.0. But not the main tool of lvling up.

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First time post on this forum, but I have to say, this is a great post that should be acknowledged. It basically sums up my feelings on how you build a strong social community in an MMO. I was also a long time FFXI player and reflecting back on those early parties, whether they were good or bad, I found you always came out with at least one new relationship. By the time you capped out your first job, you struggled to go anywhere where you couldn't find someone you had either partied or completed a common quest (Limit break quests for example) with. Those experiences built such a terrific social aspect to the game that FFXIV 1.0 could not compare to. I'm guilty in part of wanting a revival of an FFXI style of game, but I recognize that this game needs to be something unique in itself and solo ability has become more desirable for many MMO players.

My main fear is that FF will lose that rich social community if the game becomes too "soloable". Questing for xp should be an option, but I agree that it should not be the main and most effective way of levelling. Partying for experience should always play a big role in the game from early stages, otherwise you will create a community of self serving individuals which in my opinion is all WoW ever was, and not what this game should be about. I've heard the argument over and over that the game needs to be easier to play for those who don't have very much time, but to what extent? I would be so sorely disappointed if the game were to cater to those people and if the difficulty and team work was removed for the sheer sake of convenience. The game needs to be challenging and it needs to develop a strong community if they want it to last as long as XI did.

There was so much more to be had from problem solving with other players and learning your role on a team. Gamers are not stupid (especially not Final Fantasy players!) and I hope SE can get away from that trend in the MMO world of treating us like we are. At times I get the sense that SE is trying to run away from their own creation and emulate WoW instead of improving on the foundation they had laid out with XI. FFXI may have had it's shortcomings but the good definitely outweighs the bad.

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Originally Posted by Belgarion

something i cant wrap my mind around, is why peole start to hate a game that is still in development and testingphase. Its a Alpha quest for crying out loud, even i can see the tester/player is way to overpowered on level then this quest is written for

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No one is hating the game in this forum. People are expressing the fact that some of the directions Development appears to be going are not what they want in an MMO.

No one is complaining about how easy the fights are in the Demo. People are upset that it appears as though Quests are going to be extraordinarily simple, without any depth of lore, world or character development, and point players to the exact location of every objective instead of requiring some level of effort.

Ultimately I still have to say I like the video it is showing us aspects of the game. As for the people who are thrashing about quest leveling being the only option I have yet to see where they are gaining any validity in this from a teaser video. They have yet to release anything that says you HAVE to quest to level. If a quest yields 150 xp bonus for completing it and takes a few minutes does that mean that it will make exp parties obsolete? No it doesn't, it just allows for another outlet for something to do. Biggest complaint I hear in MMORPG's lately is "NOT ENOUGH TO DO". So even if the quest seems simple, it is something to do to help feel like you are in a world. FF11 did have questing wrong in the fact that it was almost worthless outside of quick gil or quick reputation gains. But, it did make you feel for the boy running around Sandy trying to find someone to help his sick grandmother. I am hoping for world developement from the quests in this meaning but having more meaning to the efforts.

Too many questions, not enough answers. Patience is a virtue, something we all need more practice with, including myself. Perhaps my desire to just have the game released already will be just a detrimental as those wishing to change things at theis stage of development.

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On the topic of questing, I actually prefer the quest based approach to the "hey, lets get together and kill this type of badguy for the sole purpose of leveling." Even though it is pretty predictable to talk to a farmer and have him tell me X monster is destroying his crops, please bring me 10 fangs to show me you helped clear some out, I much prefer to have a reason to be killing the monsters. Lol, PETA would be soooo upset at these pointless parties killing for "sport", just look at their attacks on Mario 3 and Pokemon (google PETA and Mario/Pokemon). I jest about PETA getting upset though.

I can also see why people would be tired of this kind of thing as it has been done to death. Especially if you have played "every MMO out there" cause thats a lot of MMO's. Several things that have me wondering though,
There will be a set amount of quests in the game.
Designed to help you raise your level.
To what extent will these gopher quests be repeatable?
I do the first 10 levels worth of quests to get me familiarized with the game then i change jobs, Will i again be forced to go through all of those tutorial quests? I'm no longer a new character, would they really make me do the "learn how to walk quest" "learn how to accept a quest quest" "help the local people quests" To what extent will these quests be repeatable?
Am i to do the same 10 levels worth of quests with each class or after finishing a quest with one class, is it finished for good? Wouldnt the repeatable stuff be the levequests? I would be fine with having to do all these "hand holding" quests so long as they are for a single class\job. the exception being class/job specific quests which would more likely not be "cookie cutter" quests. Something this MMO does differently than others I have played (havent played many mind you so please tell me others that do) is it allows you to changed your class\job without needing to start a new character and avoid the need to go through the tutorial and basic questing stuff. Also, whats to stop me from skipping all the filler hand holding quests and just doing the pivotal milestone quests that develop story and class/job progression. I only hope they make it so we can telll the difference between filler and important quests.

i know that in 1.0 once i did the quest it wouldnt come back if i changed my class/job, and this makes sense. I dont know if this will change come ARR but it seems a little redundent. Hold my hand with my first class/job up to endgame, ok. after that i get to grind with levequests and dungeon runs and mob grinding, awesome. Hold my hand through every class/job, whats the point of playing... Does this express the most of the concern with questing or do some people just not want this type of thing period? Am i over thinking this whole thing? Most likely. Cant wait to play the game and actually see how it handles and plays, with any luck the beta will give us all a better picture.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I could do it with a group of friends, but when I want to an experience party I like to do it with different people to make even more in-game friends.

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I'm sure there are party quests, too.
Something like "United we stand" (sabotage quest) or "Kill a raven" (kill quest)

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Originally Posted by Belgarion

Something I cant wrap my mind around, is why people start to hate a game that is still in development and testing phase. Its a Alpha quest for crying out loud, even I can see the tester/player is way to overpowered on level then this quest is written for. Be glad someone takes the effort to show how things are looking, and makes a effort to bring it to the outside world to the fans.

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The majority of the way a game will feel, quality aside, is present before alpha. They're what you intend to build, and moreover the actual priorities you place in different areas when resources are limited.

You're building a machine. You have the schematics, and a one-fifth done prototype. Which do you think I'm looking at?

Granted, the schematics don't say what you'll do when things come to worse. But the way you've handled things so far do tell me that. That's why the alpha starts these points of concern.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

The majority of the way a game will feel, quality aside, is present before alpha. They're what you intend to build, and moreover the actual priorities you place in different areas when resources are limited.

You're building a machine. You have the schematics, and a one-fifth done prototype. Which do you think I'm looking at?

Granted, the schematics don't say what you'll do when things come to worse. But the way you've handled things so far do tell me that. That's why the alpha starts these points of concern.

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It is not however present in a 5 min video. In actual fact I completely disagree anyway, you can't really judge how a game such as this feels until you have played through the whole leveling curve, at least in the context of the this discussion.

Experience Points Party.



http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Experience_Points
And in case you missed it:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Level_Grinding