SE Please implement a Chonoscroll/PLEX system in FFXIV: ARR

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Where did I predict anything? I simply said it's possible, and legally viable.

SE had the same negative stance on official forums for 8+ years as well. Guess where we're writing now?

I'm not sure, but a whole lot of things changed at SE in the past couple years.

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...I give up, you're 50 shades of cray.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I trust Yoshi and Co to make the right call on this. :)

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Same, even if I think this is mostly a decision belonging to marketing and financial departments at SE. That's not exactly Yoshi's field, as he said multiple times.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

http://rushprnews.com/2012/07/11/new...nomy-by-mmobux

http://rushprnews.com/images/posts/5...6348b81051.jpg

This graph shows that RMT prices for in-game currency in EVE have dropped nearly 75% since the introduction of the PLEX system in 2009. That means that RMTers have earned 75% less profits since PLEX was implemented. PLEX works. Sources, huzzah!

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Very nice. Thanks :D Another post that goes to the first page.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

The massive prices on the AH I've seen just a few months ago say the opposite.

What SE did in XI is simply a very extensive game of whack-a-mole.

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I have no idea how FFXI is faring today; I can only speak of the 6 years I played where they ripped RMT to shreds.
I agree with the notion that they were playing whack-a-mole. That's pretty much what they said:

"Hey everyone that plays our game, we've decided to create hire and create a team of professional whack-a-mole players to perpetually whack moles so they can't disturb you as much. They will be working around the clock to whack-moles in the hopes that eventually other moles look at FFXI and say: Hmm, they're whacking moles, I don't want to be whacked."

Not only did they ban the gil-sellers, they also banned the gil buyers. They banned a lot of people. Are you ruining FFXI for other people? You're getting whacked.
They whacked away at moles so hard and for so long that a lot of people just decided being a mole wasn't worth it anymore.

You beat CoP, you beat Treasures, you have full Kaiser for your PLD, and the salvage body. You're also working on your Aegis. You kind of want to buy gil to fund your aegis.. but.. holy hell are moles getting whacked. Probably not a good idea.

SE whacks moles, that's hella legit.

You totally lost a lot of respect from shooting down the Special Task Force. And I am now a sad panda.

Also, I heard from Aetheryte Radio that in FFXIV:AAR, the Chinese region will have their own servers and will not be able to access ours. At least, not as easily as prior. And that's another good counter measure.

Largely though, the entire concept of buying USD purchased subscriptions with gil, has little or nothing to do with RMT.

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Here's a thought though:

Rather than implement this system where USD somewhere becomes gil and vice versa..

Why not reintroduce the Adventurer Recruitment Program?

( Like so: http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui...uitment01.html)

In addition to in-game rewards however, perhaps they can also add a discount or a waiver to a month of the player's subscription, if he recruits another player who stays for 120 days? (3 months of the recruit paying for service.)

This would be motive/incentive for more subscribers; the recruiting player would get in-game bonuses for their efforts, and rather than pay more USD, they might end up paying less and still get rewarded in-game as well.

I think it would be far more likely/acceptable.

Just a thought~

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Originally Posted by A_Hortensia

I have no idea how FFXI is faring today; I can only speak of the 6 years I played where they ripped RMT to shreds.
I agree with the notion that they were playing whack-a-mole. That's pretty much what they said:

"Hey everyone that plays our game, we've decided to create hire and create a team of professional whack-a-mole players to perpetually whack moles so they can't disturb you as much. They will be working around the clock to whack-moles in the hopes that eventually other moles look at FFXI and say: Hmm, they're whacking moles, I don't want to be whacked."

Not only did they ban the gil-sellers, they also banned the gil buyers. They banned a lot of people. Are you ruining FFXI for other people? You're getting whacked.
They whacked away at moles so hard and for so long that a lot of people just decided being a mole wasn't worth it anymore.

You beat CoP, you beat Treasures, you have full Kaiser for your PLD, and the salvage body. You're also working on your Aegis. You kind of want to buy gil to fund your aegis.. but.. holy hell are moles getting whacked. Probably not a good idea.

SE whacks moles, that's hella legit.

You totally lost a lot of respect from shooting down the Special Task Force. And I am now a sad panda.

Also, I heard from Aetheryte Radio that in FFXIV:AAR, the Chinese region will have their own servers and will not be able to access ours. At least, not as easily as prior. And that's another good counter measure.

Largely though, the entire concept of buying USD purchased subscriptions with gil, has little or nothing to do with RMT.

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Here's a thought though:

Rather than implement this system where USD somewhere becomes gil and vice versa..

Why not reintroduce the Adventurer Recruitment Program?

( Like so: http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui...uitment01.html)

In addition to in-game rewards however, perhaps they can also add a discount or a waiver to a month of the player's subscription, if he recruits another player who stays for 120 days? (3 months of the recruit paying for service.)

This would be motive/incentive for more subscribers; the recruiting player would get in-game bonuses for their efforts, and rather than pay more USD, they might end up paying less and still get rewarded in-game as well.

I think it would be far more likely/acceptable.

Just a thought~

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YAY! a person with an idea. I like where you're headed. Keep em coming~

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Very nice. Thanks :D Another post that goes to the first page.

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Too bad it'll be ignored lol.

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Originally Posted by A_Hortensia

I have no idea how FFXI is faring today; I can only speak of the 6 years I played where they ripped RMT to shreds.
I agree with the notion that they were playing whack-a-mole. That's pretty much what they said:

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That's the problem. Whack-a-mole can have some effects, but they're rather limited.

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You totally lost a lot of respect from shooting down the Special Task Force. And I am now a sad panda.

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I shoot down no one. I have full respect for the effort, but it's effectiveness is limited.

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Also, I heard from Aetheryte Radio that in FFXIV:AAR, the Chinese region will have their own servers and will not be able to access ours. At least, not as easily as prior. And that's another good counter measure.

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Unfortunately it's not. First of all, the fact that gilsellers come only from china is an urban legend. They're all over the world. Most are in depressed countries, but there are a ton in the US as well.

Mind you, no gil farmer worth his salt accesses the game without a proxy to begin with. Unfortunately IP blocks never even put a small stumbling block to gold selling operations.

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Rather than implement this system where USD somewhere becomes gil and vice versa..

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Wait wait. There's no vice versa. Neither PLEX nor Chronoscrolls can be converted in real world money. That's the major failsafe the system has.

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Why not reintroduce the Adventurer Recruitment Program?

( Like so: http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui...uitment01.html)

In addition to in-game rewards however, perhaps they can also add a discount or a waiver to a month of the player's subscription, if he recruits another player who stays for 120 days? (3 months of the recruit paying for service.)

This would be motive/incentive for more subscribers; the recruiting player would get in-game bonuses for their efforts, and rather than pay more USD, they might end up paying less and still get rewarded in-game as well.

I think it would be far more likely/acceptable.

Just a thought~

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That's in no way alternative to this system, they can easily cohexist. As a matter of fact, in EVE online they *do* cohexist, very happily. You get PLEX for yourself via the recruit a friend program.

One case of the system working doesn't make it a sure bet. For all you know, it could be the exception to the rule.

EVE and XIV are completely different games with completely different economies. You can't make money and level up in XIV by doing absolutely nothing. You can progress in EVE without playing it. So it's not surprising that everyone in favor of buying gil cite it as the game that most have in common. Your dollars won't help you in Eorzea, and I hope they never do. If you want to get ahead you can log in and work towards a goal like everyone else.

Also, assuring people that something will work when only citing two sources out of X amount of MMOs is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Wait wait. There's no vice versa. Neither PLEX nor Chronoscrolls can be converted in real world money. That's the major failsafe the system has.

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I use my USD to acquire a virtual item I will sell for gil.
USD -> GIL.

Someone buys that item with GIL, and uses it for their subscription.
GIL -> USD. (Even if it's only "store credit")


And the Adventurer Recruit Program is an alternative to this.
It's another method of which SE can get people playing/subscribing.

Except the Adventurer Recruit Program won't piss anyone off.

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Originally Posted by A_Hortensia

I use my USD to acquire a virtual item I will sell for gil.
USD -> GIL.

Someone buys that item with GIL, and uses it for their subscription.
GIL -> USD. (Even if it's only "store credit")

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Store credit =/= real money though, which is why it stops RMT.

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Originally Posted by Hart

One case of the system working doesn't make it a sure bet. For all you know, it could be the exception to the rule.

EVE and XIV are completely different games with completely different economies. You can't make money and level up in XIV by doing absolutely nothing. You can progress in EVE without playing it. So it's not surprising that everyone in favor of buying gil cite it as the game that most have in common. Your dollars won't help you in Eorzea, and I hope they never do. If you want to get ahead you can log in and work towards a goal like everyone else.

Also, assuring people that something will work when only citing two sources out of X amount of MMOs is ridiculous.

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It's more ridiculous to assume it won't work when there are two examples in which it worked and none in which it didn't.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

http://rushprnews.com/images/posts/5...6348b81051.jpg

This graph shows that RMT prices for in-game currency in EVE have dropped nearly 75% since the introduction of the PLEX system in 2009. That means that RMTers have earned 75% less profits since PLEX was implemented. PLEX works. Sources, huzzah!

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Um, be careful how you are reading this chart. What we see here can also directly correlate with the drop in ISK value due to inflation.

And let me throw yet another wrench into the works:

PLEX is the name adopted for GTC. GTC was implemented 2006 or earlier, long before this graph is monitoring.

Regardless, not only are you trying to align plex with a date on the graph which does not line up, but the prices continually fluctuate to the point where there is no direct correlation between GTC/PLEX and RMT activity.

I don't have the time to read this entire thread (or even the OP), but is this something like what Blizzard did with D3?

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Originally Posted by Maiyuu

I don't have the time to read this entire thread (or even the OP), but is this something like what Blizzard did with D3?

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Nope. Completely different.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Nope. Completely different.

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That is debatable. Cash shop is a cash shop. One is just a little less convenient than the other.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Um, be careful how you are reading this chart. What we see here can also directly correlate with the drop in ISK value due to inflation.

And let me throw yet another wrench into the works:

PLEX is the name adopted for GTC. GTC was implemented 2006 or earlier, long before this graph is monitoring.

Regardless, not only are you trying to align plex with a date on the graph which does not line up, but the prices continually fluctuate to the point where there is no direct correlation between GTC/PLEX and RMT activity.

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I've never played EVE but as far as I can tell, GTC was not implemented specifically as an RMT countermeasure. Rather it was a glorified subscription-gifting system---like gifting Xbox Live 12-month cards before that became a real thing.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Um, be careful how you are reading this chart. What we see here can also directly correlate with the drop in ISK value due to inflation.

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Deflation, it's called deflation.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

And let me throw yet another wrench into the works:

PLEX is the name adopted for GTC. GTC was implemented 2006 or earlier, long before this graph is monitoring.

Regardless, not only are you trying to align plex with a date on the graph which does not line up, but the prices continually fluctuate to the point where there is no direct correlation between GTC/PLEX and RMT activity.

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You're wrong. There were GTC's before, but they were not usid ingame. They existed as a string of numbers that would grant you 60 days playtime if entered in the corresponding field in your account mgmt page.

They then developed the idea of sabotaging RMT and started using these as an ingame item, developed the term "PLEX", which means "Pilot License Extension".

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

http://rushprnews.com/2012/07/11/new...nomy-by-mmobux

http://rushprnews.com/images/posts/5...6348b81051.jpg

This graph shows that RMT prices for in-game currency in EVE have dropped nearly 75% since the introduction of the PLEX system in 2009. That means that RMTers have earned 75% less profits since PLEX was implemented. PLEX works. Sources, huzzah!

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they woulnt be selling anything if they were not making profit. either way there still making bank.

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Originally Posted by Maiyuu

I don't have the time to read this entire thread (or even the OP), but is this something like what Blizzard did with D3?

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In the sense of: Buying gold is not okay. Except, buying gold is okay as long as Blizzard profits. Yes.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

Store credit =/= real money though, which is why it stops RMT.

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It doesn't stop RMT companies. It don't see how it would.

Let's say for the sake of clarity that I was an RMT company owner/manager.

Wouldn't silling gil become more desirable because now players can use the gil they buy to not only gear their character, but also now pay for their subscription? Also, if the in-game item were 100K Gil.. and I could reliably sell 100k for 5 dollars, I could just get my RMT team to purchase the in-game item with the excess gil they farmed.. and thus increase my profits because I no longer have to worry about subscriptions.

I understand the idea for getting more subscribers(players playing), I don't see how it does anything against RMT.
I don't think it matters; SE should just whack moles. If people want to consider this idea, they shouldn't consider it as an RMT counter-measure I think..

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Um, be careful how you are reading this chart. What we see here can also directly correlate with the drop in ISK value due to inflation.

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But ISK isn't inflated.

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And let me throw yet another wrench into the works:

PLEX is the name adopted for GTC. GTC was implemented 2006 or earlier, long before this graph is monitoring.

Regardless, not only are you trying to align plex with a date on the graph which does not line up, but the prices continually fluctuate to the point where there is no direct correlation between GTC/PLEX and RMT activity.

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I see some furious googling there. You don't sound like someone that would know anything about EVE to be honest.

The graph is relevant because the procedure for the trade of GTC was definitely unwieldy and didn't work through the in-game commerce features.

Not only. Fluctuations happen in every market, but the downward trend is absolutely evident. There was no other event around the start date of the graph that could have caused the downward trend, so your wrench isn't as effective as you would like.

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Originally Posted by A_Hortensia

I understand the idea for getting more subscribers, I don't see how it does anything against RMT.

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By cutting their profits, it cuts their budget. By cutting their budget, it cuts their workforce. By cutting their workforce (and I mean people-wise, not account-wise) which is the real element that allows them to damage the economy so badly, it reduces their influence considerably.

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Originally Posted by indira

they woulnt be selling anything if they were not making profit. either way there still making bank.

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I'll take them making a lot less bank, and not managing to cause inflation, over nothing.

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Originally Posted by AhmeraMae

Deflation, it's called deflation.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

But ISK isn't inflated.

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When currency gains in value and items cost less currency, thats deflation.
When currency loses value and items cost more currency, thats inflation.

That chart shows a downward trend in currency value. Inflation.

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Originally Posted by A_Hortensia

In the sense of: Buying gold is not okay. Except, buying gold is okay as long as Blizzard profits. Yes.


It doesn't stop RMT companies. It don't see how it would.

Let's say for the sake of clarity that I was an RMT company owner/manager.

Wouldn't silling gil become more desirable because now players can use the gil they buy to not only gear their character, but also now pay for their subscription? Also, if the in-game item were 100K Gil.. and I could reliably sell 100k for 5 dollars, I could just get my RMT team to purchase the in-game item with the excess gil they farmed.. and thus increase my profits because I no longer have to worry about subscriptions.

I understand the idea for getting more subscribers, I don't see how it does anything against RMT.
I don't think it matters; SE should just whack moles. If people want to consider this idea, they shouldn't consider it as an RMT counter-measure I think..

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What? Why would you ever want to pay $ for gil just to buy an item that would otherwise cost $? In any sane world, the market price of legitimately bought PLEX would far outstrip the rate that gil-sellers would be selling at. For example, you buy a PLEX for $5 which can be sold for 100k on MW, there's no way gil-sellers can sell at any price higher than the same rate. In effect, the higher the gil-sellers drive their prices up under this system, the more they shoot themselves in the foot as people turn to PLEX over their business. There's no such thing as a perpetual motion machine/money engine.

Also, for the record, EVE developers also play whack-a-mole IN ADDITION to PLEX. See Operation Unholy Rage. No one is saying you can't do both.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

By cutting their profits, it cuts their budget. By cutting their budget, it cuts their workforce. By cutting their workforce (and I mean people-wise, not account-wise) which is the real element that allows them to damage the economy so badly, it reduces their influence considerably.

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It actually wouldn't cut my profit. It could decrease my revenue, but I might wind up profiting more.
I wouldn't have to worry about coming up with 150 USD+ a month to keep my team subscribed and online. (sometimes more than 150 if my team acts carelessly and gets themselves banned)

And if it costs 10 USD to make 100K legally, I'll be sure to adjust my prices accordingly so that my farmed gil is a better deal. Also, i won't be reliant on the fluctuation of a single items in-game value, as I would be if I were legitimately selling gil through SE.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

What? Why would you ever want to pay $ for gil just to buy an item that would otherwise cost $?

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I would sell gil at USD prices so that when you spend 10 dollars with me, you get a month's subscription as well as extra gil that you would use for your character. SE will still make money, but so will I.

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Originally Posted by A_Hortensia

It actually wouldn't cut my profit. It could decrease my revenue, but I might wind up profiting more.
I wouldn't have to worry about coming up with 150 USD+ a month to keep my team subscribed and online. (sometimes more than 150 if my team acts carelessly and gets themselves banned)

And if it costs 10 USD to make 100K legally, I'll be sure to adjust my prices accordingly so that my farmed gil is a better deal. Also, i won't be reliant on the fluctuation of a single items in-game value, as I would be if I were legitimately selling gil through SE.

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NO gilselling firm pays for their accounts. They steal them, or use credit card fraud to get them and keep em running as long as they go. then they just move to new ones.

That's the main reason why whacking moles doesn't work much. They have an infinite supply of accounts for free.

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Originally Posted by A_Hortensia

It actually wouldn't cut my profit. It could decrease my revenue, but I might wind up profiting more.
I wouldn't have to worry about coming up with 150 USD+ a month to keep my team subscribed and online. (sometimes more than 150 if my team acts carelessly and gets themselves banned)

And if it costs 10 USD to make 100K legally, I'll be sure to adjust my prices accordingly so that my farmed gil is a better deal. Also, i won't be reliant on the fluctuation of a single items in-game value, as I would be if I were legitimately selling gil through SE.

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Think about it this way. I am an RMT. I buy 100k gil for $10.00 using the PLEX system. I then have to sell it for AT LEAST $10.01 in order to make a profit. But who would ever buy from me if I could just use PLEX to buy it for $10 and legally to boot?

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

When currency gains in value and items cost less currency, thats deflation.
When currency loses value and items cost more currency, thats inflation.

That chart shows a downward trend in currency value. Inflation.

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Dude. Seriously. (no pun intended.)

This chart shows how much you have to pay in USD in order to buy 400K ISK. It shows how the currency LOST in value for RMTers. This chart is the best possible proof of concept. It clearly shows that PLEX work!

Edit: Also, as a direct consequence of the drop in value for RMTers, less and less ISK were present igame. the tISK decreased. and this leads to what effect? Ah, yes! DEFLATION!

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

When currency gains in value and items cost less currency, thats deflation.
When currency loses value and items cost more currency, thats inflation.

That chart shows a downward trend in currency value. Inflation.

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That chart doesn't show the purchasing power of ISK towards in game items. That chart shows the price of ISK in dollars.

So let me get this straight, the argument you have with RMT is:

You get rid of people outcompeting the average player on the market with superior supply quantities
and
You halt in-game RMT advertising

Whatever else they do is A-O-K?


Because that sounds a great deal like what is being pushed here.

And opens the door to cash shops. Its a slippery slope, my friend.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

NO gilselling firm pays for their accounts. They steal them, or use credit card fraud to get them and keep em running as long as they go. then they just move to new ones.

That's the main reason why whacking moles doesn't work much.

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While it's true that there are some organizations that would go through such measures.

That is not a true statement for all RMT. There are as many that pay legitimately to fund their business, as their are others who fund their business through criminal means.

Just putting that out there.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

So let me get this straight, the argument you have with RMT is:

You get rid of people outcompeting the average player on the market with superior supply quantities
and
You halt in-game RMT advertising

Whatever else they do is A-O-K?


Because that sounds a great deal like what is being pushed here.

And opens the door to cash shops. Its a slippery slope, my friend.

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I don't believe there are cash shops in EVE Online after 3 years with PLEX. A slope can be slippery, that's why you need integrity boots. With spikes.

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Originally Posted by A_Hortensia

While it's true that there are some organizations that would go through such measures.

That is not a true statement for all RMT. There are as many that pay legitimately to fund their business, as their are others who fund their business through criminal means.

Just putting that out there.

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Those that pay legitimately are the vast minority, and the least dangerous (because they also have the less workforce to begin with). I'm not exactly talking about house-run operations, but facilities with several hundreds of sleep-in "employees" working on four turns 24/7.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

So let me get this straight, the argument you have with RMT is:

You get rid of people outcompeting the average player on the market with superior supply quantities
and
You halt in-game RMT advertising

Whatever else they do is A-O-K?

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That's what damages the economy. Personally, if my neighbor wants to get some gil to equip himself better (granted the fact that he won't have the very best, because that's Rare/ex), it's his business. It doesn't impact me in the slightest way, so why should I mind?

As a matter of fact it impacts me positively as an endgame player. The more people are equipped decently, the more people I have to play with.

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And opens the door to cash shops. Its a slippery slope, my friend.

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The "slippery slope" argument is a logical fallacy, as it assume that someone will follow the slope downwards. That's nowhere a given.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

I don't believe there are cash shops in EVE Online after 3 years with PLEX. A slope can be slippery, that's why you need integrity boots. With spikes.

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There actually is, but it's entirely cosmetic and doesn't influence gameplay in any way. Unfortunately that's the way the market is going, even with pay to play games.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

A slope can be slippery, that's why you need integrity boots. With spikes.

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Clever.

So what kind of data do we have for other mmos with this system? Whether plex can work for EVE is one thing, are there several other success stories, or is it just EVE and rumors of it happening in TERA? Seems like an awfully small sample size to assert so confidently that it should be implemented in ARR.

Again, I ask for a larger sample size because that is exactly what made the Auction house system so widely adopted, because it was successful in several previous games. It makes sense to see whether this system is truly compatible with an X|V economy which, was so bluntly pointed out to me, is dramatically different from EVE.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Clever.

So what kind of data do we have for other mmos with this system? Whether plex can work for EVE is one thing, are there several other success stories, or i it just EVE and rumors of it happening in TERA? Seems like an awfully small sample size to say that it should be implemented in ARR.

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While TERA doesn't disclose economic data as CCP does quartely, one thing is for sure. Prices in TERA don't inflate. As a matter of fact, they always deflate (as anyone playing the game could tell you). On all servers newly introduced items start costly, and then they steadily lower in price until they become very cheap.

That's a clear indicator of a healthy economy in which RMT didn't take any hold on the market, because when they do, prices at the very least remain stable or grow, as they do everything they can to keep their earnings high, and they have the manpower to make that happen.

And I wouldn't call EVE Online "small", considering that it's one of the most successful and popular MMOs on the market.

Honestly here in italy we call what you're doing "climbing mirrors", or scrambling to find every possible excuse :D

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Clever.

So what kind of data do we have for other mmos with this system? Whether plex can work for EVE is one thing, are there several other success stories, or i it just EVE and rumors of it happening in TERA? Seems like an awfully small sample size to assert so confidently that it should be implemented in ARR.

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We delivered you a case in which PLEX worked out beautiful.
How about you present us one where they don't?

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Originally Posted by Abriael

And I wouldn't call EVE Online "small", considering that it's one of the most successful and popular MMOs on the market.

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I think youre grasping for an accusation I wasnt trying to make.

EVE is one game of hundreds. With Tera you might have 2, but we have little data to corellate as supporting evidence in your argument from Tera.

Counting each sub as part of the sample size is unfair to the point i was trying to make. The concept has been adopted by so few games in the industry, its difficult yet to see how slapping this shiny sticker on another game is going to change the game.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

I think youre grasping for an accusation I wasnt trying to make.

EVE is one game of hundreds. With Tera you might have 2, but we have little data to corellate as supporting evidence in your argument from Tera.

Counting each sub as part of the sample size is unfair to the point i was trying to make. The concept has been adopted by so few games in the industry, its difficult yet to see how slapping this shiny sticker on another game is going to change the game.

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Considering that there's no example in which the system failed, it's much more difficult to demonstrate how it won't.

100% against 0% is a quite determining percentage.

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Originally Posted by AhmeraMae

We delivered you a case in which PLEX worked out beautiful.
How about you present us one where they don't?

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You sound like someone selling asbestos for the first time. Hey I got this great new material that insulates AND protects from fire! Let's put it in all the houses!

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Clever.

So what kind of data do we have for other mmos with this system? Whether plex can work for EVE is one thing, are there several other success stories, or is it just EVE and rumors of it happening in TERA? Seems like an awfully small sample size to assert so confidently that it should be implemented in ARR.

Again, I ask for a larger sample size because that is exactly what made the Auction house system so widely adopted, because it was successful in several previous games. It makes sense to see whether this system is truly compatible with an X|V economy which, was so bluntly pointed out to me, is dramatically different from EVE.

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100% agree. I don't know if a PLEX-like system will work for FFXIV. There's no guarantee that it will work like it has in EVE. However, I don't think it's fair to reject the idea outright as the zomgRMT crowd are saying. It's just an idea with demonstrable merit, in my opinion, and this thread exists to publicize it to the powers that be at SE.

Wow, can't believe you guys are still at this, lol

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Counting each sub as part of the sample size is unfair to the point i was trying to make. The concept has been adopted by so few games in the industry, its difficult yet to see how slapping this shiny sticker on another game is going to change the game.

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Not sure if this point's been made in the thread since I last looked, but one key area to look at is whether the game mechanic and design can cope with players sudden gaining access to large sums of in-game currency without negative effects. I don't know about Tera, as I've never played the game, but for Eve that is generally the case, as all the money and assets in the world doesn't do anyone any good if they can't fully utilize it, whether through lack of in-game skill or other reasons, and the pvp-centric style of the game all but guarantees that idiots are soon parted with their money and assets, often accompanied by hilarious killmails.